$3500 N number

[RV7A Flyer]

Originally Posted by Turbo69bird

there Is value. Maybe not to you but to many people whodon't want to search, and will pay for the option of not having to search.

As for someone buying up ALL the n numbers they are taking risk. Who's to say the government under those circumstances wouldn't issue bar codes instead, and the numbers would have zero value. ? They are buying on spec. Just like a builder buys lots to build on, or a stock broker buys stock or options them.

We are not "entitled" to short N numbers. If people really don't like it they won't pay for it and that will stop it because the guy won't waste his time if there's no financial return ie: no value.

Still not addressing the hypothetical...NO changes in n-number formats by the FAA, n-numbers still REQUIRED by law, and a company rich enough to reserve them all and then charge whatever price they want.

It's easy to wriggle out from underneath the hypothetical posed by inventing some new way of registering airplanes, but that's not what is happening today and not what the question was.

And a stockbroker is buying on the *private* market, not a limited government-owned, federally mandated "resource".

[rvanstory]

I find this thread extremely interesting! Is it possible to say that "both sides are right"? I think people on both sides of this debate have very valid points.

It reinforces a belief I have....There are no "perfect" systems! Free market systems are not perfect because the "haves" can have so much more than the "have-nots". The difference just seems immoral. Yet, socialism is not perfect because there is no incentive for one person with a better ideal to exploit a "better way of doing things" because they will not benefit anymore than everyone else.

Here's my unsolicited opinion FWIW..... if no system is perfect (because they all have their flaws) pick the system that "sucks least". I'd rather John have the right to extort money from me for a highly desirable N-number than to encourage my government to be more restrictive. That seems to suck the least.

Here's something else I find very interesting. I bet most of the people who want to criticize the FAA for allowing John to do what he does are also the same people who enjoy the freedoms we have as homebuilders in America. Would those same people applaud the FAA for becoming MORE restrictive on our rights as homebuilders???? My guess would be that these same people would be terribly upset if the FAA began to "infringe" on our rights.

So, back to my opinion. There are no perfect systems. So, I'll choose to side with the choice that sucks the least.

[BMC_Dave]

We're lucky they're not randomly assigned, or sequential. An N number is required, the N number you want isn't...

Don't be jealous you didn't think of it first.

[GalinHdz]

9

Originally Posted by Turbo69bird

We are not "entitled" to short N numbers. If people really don't like it they won't pay for it and that will stop it because the guy won't waste his time if there's no financial return ie: no value.

Well said.

Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer

Still not addressing the hypothetical...NO changes in n-number formats by the FAA, n-numbers still REQUIRED by law, and a company rich enough to reserve them all and then charge whatever price they want.

It's easy to wriggle out from underneath the hypothetical posed by inventing some new way of registering airplanes, but that's not what is happening today and not what the question was.

It addresses the fact that theory has to eventually face reality.

With a simple stroke of the pen the airplane registration numbering system has changed before and, if needed, can/will change again with another stroke of the pen. Just converting one character of the existing system from numeric to alphanumeric (N12XXX vs N123XX) would almost quadruple the available registration numbers. This reality makes your hypothetical business model so fundamentally flawed no investor would risk loosing the massive amounts of money required to attempt it. Your hypothetical situation is simply DOA.

[bkervaski]

It would be one thing if there were a shortage of N numbers but there isn't ... I don't see any problem with it.

Nothing stopping anyone from doing the same and selling them for less ... cheap-n-numbers.com is available ...

[thompsonbr87]

Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer

Still not addressing the hypothetical...NO changes in n-number formats by the FAA, n-numbers still REQUIRED by law, and a company rich enough to reserve them all and then charge whatever price they want.

It's easy to wriggle out from underneath the hypothetical posed by inventing some new way of registering airplanes, but that's not what is happening today and not what the question was.

And a stockbroker is buying on the *private* market, not a limited government-owned, federally mandated "resource".

Ok, yes. In this situation you've concocted, you can conclude that someone is profiteering from a "government-owned, and federally mandated 'resource'". I'm not going to argue otherwise within the context of your hypothetical.

Instead, I'm saying that your hypothetical situation is so far divorced from reality that it is ridiculous. You're proposing a scenario (someone hoarding all currently available N-numbers) that isn't going to happen, but that doesn't necessarily stop us from considering "what if". However, your experiment completely disconnects itself from reality when you stipulate that nothing is allowed to be done or changed to fix the problem. IF some big conglomerate gobbled up every last N-number, it would be foolish to really, truly, honestly believe that nothing would change. Do you see the airlines just accepting the fact that they can't get any new aircraft? Boeing and Airbus? They're just going to roll over and play dead?! The transportation industry as a whole would entirely reject this idea of "nothing is allowed to change". Maybe nobody would be allowed to reserve N-numbers anymore; instead, they would be randomly or sequentially assigned to an airworthy, certificated aircraft. Maybe the FAA adds 30 million possible registrations by adding a 6th digit, or another billion by adding a 7th. The point is, under the circumstances that you've imagined, something will change. To pretend otherwise is to forego an honest discussion.

Coming full circle and knowing how simply and easily things could and would change to fix the problem, you can easily see why the original hypothetical situation of someone buying up every N-number will never happen.

[RV7A Flyer]

Originally Posted by thompsonbr87

Ok, yes. In this situation you've concocted, you can conclude that someone is profiteering from a "government-owned, and federally mandated 'resource'". I'm not going to argue otherwise within the context of your hypothetical.

Instead, I'm saying that your hypothetical situation is so far divorced from reality that it is ridiculous. You're proposing a scenario (someone hoarding all currently available N-numbers) that isn't going to happen, but that doesn't necessarily stop us from considering "what if". However, your experiment completely disconnects itself from reality when you stipulate that nothing is allowed to be done or changed to fix the problem. IF some big conglomerate gobbled up every last N-number, it would be foolish to really, truly, honestly believe that nothing would change. Do you see the airlines just accepting the fact that they can't get any new aircraft? Boeing and Airbus? They're just going to roll over and play dead?! The transportation industry as a whole would entirely reject this idea of "nothing is allowed to change". Maybe nobody would be allowed to reserve N-numbers anymore; instead, they would be randomly or sequentially assigned to an airworthy, certificated aircraft. Maybe the FAA adds 30 million possible registrations by adding a 6th digit, or another billion by adding a 7th. The point is, under the circumstances that you've imagined, something will change. To pretend otherwise is to forego an honest discussion.

Coming full circle and knowing how simply and easily things could and would change to fix the problem, you can easily see why the original hypothetical situation of someone buying up every N-number will never happen.

Never is a long time, especially in a climate that encourages privatization of government assets.

I guess, in the end, my biggest problem is with the government forcing one to acquire/use a government "resource", but then allowing a private corporation the ability to monopolize the resource. If it were a tangible asset, and it was required that you buy one to fly, and the source was the government, I don't think as many people would be so accepting of this scheme. Regulation says you have to get an X widget from the government, at a minimal cost, to be airworthy. Private company buys up Xs from the government, creating a shortage or very long lead time, unless you pay an exorbitant fee to the company. Taxpaying aviators are the ones stuck with the choice...pony up or don't fly.

I don't think a lot of pilots would be too happy about a situation like that.

[bkervaski]

I guess, in the end, my biggest problem is with the government forcing one to acquire/use a government "resource", but then allowing a private corporation the ability to monopolize the resource.

Best argument against yet ... however, I'm sure the FAA would drop the hammer if the resource was actually being monopolized. The negligible number of reserved N numbers this guy has is not a problem that needs attention or rule change. The raised hairs are from people who want one of those numbers for vanity purposes. There are plenty of N numbers available to register. Same as domain names or toll free numbers.

[ColoCardinal]

A few good arguments on both sides. Keep in mind that the ability to reserve these numbers from the FAA is (in theory anyway) the same for all of us.

I wanted to perform a quick exercise to see how a nice N number could be found and reserved. I did a quick check to determine which registrations were "Cancelled".

Please correct me if I'm wrong with any of this:The regs state that any registration that is not renewed is considered "Expired". After "about 90 days" it is considered "cancelled". That number then becomes available again after 5 years (midnight).

I found that N14EC was cancelled on 4/9/2014 and will therefore be available at midnight 4/9/19.

If any of you are interested in working for your N number instead of paying for someone else to harvest it for you, get all of your ducks in a row at about 11:55 and set your trigger to "hit that number" at midnight. Don't forget that the FAA is in OK City when doing this. Spend $10 on a practice session before going for that number so you will know what you're doing when going for the big prize.

I'll be interested to see who gets this. If i's one of you guys, and you decide not to use it, will you gift it to one of your fellow RVers or will you sell it?

I'm all for private enterprise but also FIRMLY disagree with "if it's "legal" it's not wrong or immoral"

[Scott Hersha]

N numbers only mean something to the builder, or owner of any airplane (maybe falsely). No one else cares. I would be happy with a randomly selected N number - like buying a lottery ticket with auto pick. Who cares, really?? The only reason I can think of for selecting a personalized N number is how it rolls off the tongue. I don?t prefer to end my call sign in ?Sierra Echo, or Zulu Hotel? - too many syllables for me, but others may like those ones. BUT - I could get used to any number. The N number means NOTHING. We could shut the N number pirates down by not caring what our useless N number is. If you built your airplane, your name is on the data plate. Isn?t that enough?