$3500 N number

[DakotaHawk]

I've watched this thread expand all day with some interest. I agree with this guy's right to find a need (people want vanity N-numbers) and figure out a way to cash in on their need.

But if you really want a vanity number, you can do the same legwork and deal directly with the FAA.

My first reserved/used N number was obtained by mailing the FAA a letter asking for the lowest N number ending in "DH". Even though the DeHavilands were snapping up all of the numbers, I was assigned N17DH via snail mail.

My second reserved/used N number was obtained by doing a wildcard search on the FAA website for **7RV. I found N957RV and put that on my RV-7.

My third reserved N number was more of a hunt. I wanted something with "14" for the RV-14, but I wasn't really interested in the "RV" part. Being a new grandpa, I found N144P and snapped it up. Not realizing how volatile the short N numbers are, I let this one sit on the website for almost a week before I finally decided to reserve it.

I keep my reservation letter pinned to my "to do" whiteboard in my shop. I send in my $10 two or three months before the annual expiration date, and then watch the check clear to make sure that I don't lose the reservation.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

[rolivi]

Anyone search for the last time this discussion cropped up?

Jan 2017: http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...hort+n-numbers

Thread got closed that time. No reason to doubt it will happen this time as well.

[RV7A Flyer]

Originally Posted by ppilotmike

James,

I'm sorry you "lost" two short N-numbers that you had reserved. Sounds like the FAA failed you. What would you do if the guy in line ahead of you at the DMV wanted the same vanity plate you wanted? Or... what if the guy behind you in line forgot to renew his vanity plate, but you were about to reserve that plate. You're in line first, so you've got dibs. The guy behind you is happy and grateful, because all he has to do, to get his prized plate renewed, is negotiate some means of compensation with you, before his vanity plate goes back into the void and picked up by someone else (maybe the guy in the line next door, who's listening to the conversation and thinking he might like that same plate on his car. Maybe the compensation is simply a heart-felt "thank you," or it could be a cool $1,000 in your pocket... But you wouldn't do that, right, because it's not fair to all the other people in line...?

DMV analogies are flawed. DMV does not allow one to reserve vanity plates. You have to have an actual vehicle to put it on. You can't go on to the DMV site, reserve boatloads of plate numbers, and then just hold on to them and charge ridiculously high prices to transfer them to someone else.

Further, it's doubtful that this guy is manually logging in every night at midnight and searching for newly available n-numbers. There must be some way of accessing the FAA database via an API and running a query, and then one can automate the process of reserving them through that same API. Just my guess.

Try doing that with the DMV.

[Sam Buchanan]

Originally Posted by rolivi

Anyone search for the last time this discussion cropped up?

Jan 2017: http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...hort+n-numbers

See post #2.

[Pilot135pd]

I've never had any issues finding a good N number for my aircraft. Last year I bought a gyroplane and since my airport is called Vaca Moo I got 32VM ( three two vaca moo, rhymes and slips right off the tongue).

Since I was considering building a Ran's S-21 (ended up buying the RV-8 instead, best decision I've made in a long time ! ) I looked online for something similar to 32VM which would look and sound good too. I found 52VM ( five two vaca moo, the 2 rhymes with moo also). I just called the FAA and asked if they could kindly check to see if that number was in the que to be reserved when processed. When their computer accepts your reservation it's still not yours until they put it into the main system in que and then a month or so later it gets to the person who processes it and sends you the letter BUT once it's in the system they can check and tell you it's in the que so it's not going to be available. They checked and said nobody had it in the que but someone could have reserved it earlier that day and it's still not entered into the system. It was early in the day so I took the risk and paid online hoping that nobody had reserved it that day just before me.

It worked and now my two aircraft are 32VM and 52VM.

[gyoung]

To the notion of it's worth what it's worth, a guy on my field has a really nice A36. He probably wouldn't even have responded to a $3500 offer. But a race car driver really wanted his N-number ending in "RP" and gave him a new leather interior and repainted his number. Oh well, them that gots, gets.

[RV7A Flyer]

Originally Posted by thompsonbr87

In this hypothetical situation, are we also going to assume that the FAA, airlines, NBAA, AOPA, etc. are all going to just going to allow this to happen and accept this as the status quo? Are we also going to assume there are no other options like adding a 6th alphanumeric digit (which would instantly create another 30 million combinations).

In our current situation, N-numbers are practically an unlimited resource. Anyone can get one at face value. Yes, the current system limits us to ~900,000 combination, but that is a completely artificial limitation. The only reason more combinations are not available is because they aren't needed. If for any reason that were to ever change, then I'm not quite sure I would buy the fact that everyone would just say "Oh well, no more airplanes. We're not even gonna try to solve this problem" and call it quits.

I appreciate the thought experiment though. It illustrates that even in a wildly impossible scenario, the free market would find a way to correct itself just fine. So yeah, I'm good with it.

The underlying problem, of course, is that it's NOT a free market (unless you take the position that you can always just not own an airplane). The government requires you to have an n-number, and only they can issue them.

So furthering the thought experiment, assume that the government does NOT increase the maximum length or the general scheme (1 or more numbers followed by 0, 1 or 2 letters, maximum of 5 characters). Now, as stated, someone or some group with enough cash access the FAA database (presumably in some automated fashion) and reserves ALL available n-numbers. They may not even have a single plane on which to put any of them, but hey...they reserved them fair and square. At what price point would you call foul? $25? Probably not. $250? Getting a bit scratchy there. $2500? $10 grand? More? Maybe a hundred grand for the highly-coveted very short numbers. Maybe more...those G-650 owners won't have a problem, but the rest of us might.

The FAA, because of whatever reason, sides with the "free market", and says "oh, well, guess you'll just have to pay what the market will bear!"), and Congress, ever grid-locked, won't act. You're stuck...want to register your new RV? Toss another few grand into the RV fund.

I don't know about you, but I have a bit of an issue with someone scarfing up government-controlled and mandated licensing and registration stuff like this, then turning around and selling it to the taxpayers at a significant mark-up without adding ANY value to the product or the process.

[Turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer

The underlying problem, of course, is that it's NOT a free market (unless you take the position that you can always just not own an airplane). The government requires you to have an n-number, and only they can issue them.

So furthering the thought experiment, assume that the government does NOT increase the maximum length or the general scheme (1 or more numbers followed by 0, 1 or 2 letters, maximum of 5 characters). Now, as stated, someone or some group with enough cash access the FAA database (presumably in some automated fashion) and reserves ALL available n-numbers. They may not even have a single plane on which to put any of them, but hey...they reserved them fair and square. At what price point would you call foul? $25? Probably not. $250? Getting a bit scratchy there. $2500? $10 grand? More? Maybe a hundred grand for the highly-coveted very short numbers. Maybe more...those G-650 owners won't have a problem, but the rest of us might.

The FAA, because of whatever reason, sides with the "free market", and says "oh, well, guess you'll just have to pay what the market will bear!"), and Congress, ever grid-locked, won't act. You're stuck...want to register your new RV? Toss another few grand into the RV fund.

I don't know about you, but I have a bit of an issue with someone scarfing up government-controlled and mandated licensing and registration stuff like this, then turning around and selling it to the taxpayers at a significant mark-up without adding ANY value to the product or the process.

there Is value. Maybe not to you but to many people whodon't want to search, and will pay for the option of not having to search.

As for someone buying up ALL the n numbers they are taking risk. Who's to say the government under those circumstances wouldn't issue bar codes instead, and the numbers would have zero value. ? They are buying on spec. Just like a builder buys lots to build on, or a stock broker buys stock or options them.

We are not "entitled" to short N numbers. If people really don't like it they won't pay for it and that will stop it because the guy won't waste his time if there's no financial return ie: no value.

[pjc]

I think a better system would be for the FAA to auction “vanity” N numbers, say any with more than one request within a 90 day period. Perhaps the revenues could be used to provide additional/better traffic services at OSH ... I don’t see much value in allowing the free-market to provide this service “rent” free. Short-N-Numbers and others would be welcome to bid in a more open and transparent market with benefits (revenue) to tax-payers who are the “owners” of the scarce resource in question.

[dhmoose]

Originally Posted by DanH

Short-N-Numbers, LLC
PO Box 368
Groveland, FL 34736
Contact: John Reynolds
Title: President
Phone: (305) 394-1740
Website: www.short-n-numbers.com

http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Sho...C-305-394-1740

Isn’t the description of John’s business a little odd?:

Business Description
Short-N-Numbers is located in Groveland, Florida. This organization primarily operates in the Sperm Bank business / industry within the Health Services sector. This organization has been operating for approximately 6 years. Short-N-Numbers is estimated to generate $50,865 in annual revenues, and employs approximately 5 people at this single location.