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03-13-2019, 09:08 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: coupeville wa
Posts: 134
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Depends how complecated your wiring diagrams are. Having a component library with the components you are using saves a lot of time. Making modifications and corrections is much easier on a schematic capture program. Integrating the functional test of the wiring before applying power and troubleshooting any problems is more straightforward with a cad based schematic. I am not sure the “net list” is really a “must have” for a simple system like an RV. For a heavy transport aircraft it is essential. At what point to spend the extra time learnig a new program is a matter of personal preference. More important to get the wiring diagram correct than to have it look pretty.
Kt
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03-14-2019, 10:51 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Marion, IN
Posts: 231
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By "functional test," are you referring to ExpressSCH's "Check schematic..." command?
Will most of the components I'll be using already in ExpressSch? I see that they have a relay but I haven't studied it well. From a brief look, I almost think I'd need to draw new starter and master relays. How about other components? Do you use the built-in DB connectors? Doesn't look like there'd be room to label the pins.
Edit: Just placed a DB-37. Bigger than I thought. Maybe those would work. But I still wonder about all the other components. I'd love to see somebody's samples from ExpressSCH.
__________________
Ray Dosh
LJ45 driver
RV-14 QB #140212
Tail feathers finished
Tail cone in progress
2020 DUES PAID
Marion, IN MZZ
Last edited by SabreFlyr : 03-14-2019 at 10:54 AM.
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03-14-2019, 06:12 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 2,596
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I’ll have to be a contrarian on all this.
I’ve seen a lot of these schematics that are little more than eye charts. Helping an RV-14 builder who chose to use the Van’s wiring harness I found the schematic more frustrating than useful. I just wanted to know what pin goes to what pin.
What I do:
- Document what is in each major wire bundle (as in right wing, left wing, engine and fuselage).
- Document every connector pin, and identify each connector. So I have a list of all the GTN-650 pins and where each wire goes to the next connector. Same for the SkyView 35 pin and so forth. The two 25 pins D connectors that connect the removable panel to the rest of the plane are similarly documented.
This is done on a simple Word document. I find this much easier to work with then trying to follow little squiggling lines on a chart.
This process has worked well on three project when it came to maintenance and/or panel upgrade time.
I realize this is close to sacrilege for a engineer to admit, but I figured someone might be dumping hours into fancy programs when simple could be all that is needed.
Carl
Carl
Last edited by Carl Froehlich : 03-15-2019 at 08:05 AM.
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03-14-2019, 08:21 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Victoria, Canada
Posts: 2,251
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__________________
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V e r n. ====
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RV-9A complete
Harmon Rocket complete
S-21 wings complete
Victoria, BC (Summer)
Chandler, Az (Winter)
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03-14-2019, 08:33 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Marion, IN
Posts: 231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich
What I do:...
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Carl, I do hear what you're saying and I'm not sure that I won't go in that direction, perhaps in a graphic format.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlittle
Here's a complete example, along with source:
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Vern, I was just looking at your thread from a few years back this morning and checked out two or three of your PDFs. They look pretty good to me! How do you feel about component theft from your source file? 
__________________
Ray Dosh
LJ45 driver
RV-14 QB #140212
Tail feathers finished
Tail cone in progress
2020 DUES PAID
Marion, IN MZZ
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03-14-2019, 08:57 PM
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,884
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Since I was the one to 1st mention ExpressSCH, I'll confess that all I have right now for my build are Carl-like connection lists, in pencil, on a steno pad, and then transcribed into a spreadsheet.
I do firmly believe that both a wiring diagram and connection list(s) are good to have, and intend to eventually create the wiring diagram. But the connection lists were fast to generate, as I was wiring. My build has required somewhat frequent changes/revisions, and it's been easier to to just keep revising a text file.
Charlie
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03-14-2019, 09:20 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Victoria, Canada
Posts: 2,251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreFlyr
Carl, I do hear what you're saying and I'm not sure that I won't go in that direction, perhaps in a graphic format.
Vern, I was just looking at your thread from a few years back this morning and checked out two or three of your PDFs. They look pretty good to me! How do you feel about component theft from your source file? 
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Go ahead, pay it forward.
V
__________________
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V e r n. ====
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RV-9A complete
Harmon Rocket complete
S-21 wings complete
Victoria, BC (Summer)
Chandler, Az (Winter)
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03-14-2019, 11:38 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: coupeville wa
Posts: 134
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The ?functional test? I was refering to was the test steps to check out the wiring, power up all the components, activate firmware and software and then ensure the system functions as intended. Just having a wire list in word or excel is a good first step but likely to come up short when you have powered up all the components and can?t get everything to play together. Having a detailed wiring diagram makes troubleshooting much easier under those conditions. If you are bringing up a predominantly Dynon system with Garmin components are you going to just do a continuity test for all the cable harnesses, plug it all together and hit the power switch or bring the system up sequentially in easy stages. It?s important to have a written plan that is followed to minimize errors and component damage resulting from such errors. Additionally, a written plan with troubleshooting ?breakout? steps reduces the risk of ?winging it? and improvising in the heat of the battle and blowing up some expensive avionics.
KT
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03-15-2019, 05:11 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Marion, IN
Posts: 231
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Thanks, Keith. Makes sense and sounds like a good plan to follow. Now, if I can just exercise enough forethought... 
__________________
Ray Dosh
LJ45 driver
RV-14 QB #140212
Tail feathers finished
Tail cone in progress
2020 DUES PAID
Marion, IN MZZ
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03-15-2019, 05:31 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 4,196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich
I?ll have to be a contrarian on all this.
I?ve seen a lot of these schematics that are little more than eye charts. Helping an RV-14 builder who choose to use the Van?s wiring harness I found the schematic more frustrating than useful. I just wanted to know what pin goes to what pin.
What I do:
- Document what is in each major wire bundle (as in right wing, left wing, engine and fuselage).
- Document every connector pin, and identify each connector. So I have a list of all the GTN-650 pins and where each wire goes to the next connector. Same for the SkyView 35 pin and so forth. The two 25 pins D connectors that connect the removable panel to the rest of the plane are similarly documented.
This is done on a simple Word document. I find this much easier to work with then trying to follow little squiggling lines on a chart.
This process has worked well on three project when it came to maintenance and/or panel upgrade time.
I realize this is close to sacrilege for a engineer to admit, but I figured someone might be dumping hours into fancy programs when simple could be all that is needed.
Carl
Carl
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When I built my RV-10 many years ago, like Carl, I documented each and every connection in Excel. I also created a tab for each avionic device.
The end result is that you can look at P1 on my GTN650 and see what pin each wire is connected to, the pin/connector/device at the other end, as well as any required software settings to make that connection.
Fast forward to today. I had intended making nice schematics after I started flying. It's been over five years and I still haven't got around to it yet. With that said, I have that Excel wirebook on a laptop in the hangar, on my iPad, and on my iPhone. I refer back to it all the time or when I need to make a change. It has served me well.
I'm not saying to not draw a schematic, just that sometimes simple approaches work well too.
bob
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