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03-01-2019, 10:33 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: N Idaho!
Posts: 43
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I'm not far enough in the build process to purchase an engine.
I've been leaning towards an XP382 when the time comes.
Knowing Superior is willing to take it in the shorts and do the right thing adds to my confidence level in purchasing an engine from them when the time comes.
Especially since there have been problems only with the 400, but their pulling the 382s also, just to be safe.
Kudos to Superior.
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03-01-2019, 11:23 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: St John, Steamboat Springs, planet Earth generally
Posts: 96
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Kudos to Superior if they try to make those affected whole (in tems of the consequential expense they have to bear, the mighty inconvenience and the loss of time)...
Otherwise, it?s not like they could?ve let the engines kept on flying knowing that the crankshaft may fail at any moment....
__________________
Building a Panther, but lurking here, like many others
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03-01-2019, 12:17 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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J.B. is doing his job, as he should. Business is business.
While on the subject, remember Superior also sells 320's and 360's. Sometimes less is more.
From the most recent Kitplanes Engine Buyers Guide:
XP-O-320-A1AC2 160 carb, fixed pitch $26300
XP-IO-320-A1AC2 165 HP injected, fixed pitch $27100
XP-O-360-A1AC2 180 HP carb, fixed pitch $26300
XP-IO-360-A1AC2 185 HP injected, fixed pitch $27100
XP-O-320-B1AC2 160 HP carb, constant speed $26600
XP-IO-320-B1AC2 165 HP injected, constant speed $27400
XP-O-360-B1AC2 180 HP injected, constant speed $26600
XP-IO-360-B1AC2 185 HP injected, constant speed $27400
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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03-02-2019, 01:03 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 615
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I guess if you keep milking the 360 cow it's gotta dry up & bust sometime!
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03-02-2019, 02:53 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta
Posts: 77
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Very interesting list of engine prices. I never realized that the difference in price from a 160 to 185 HP is only 4%. I wonder how many 160's are sold compared to 180-185's??
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03-02-2019, 07:26 AM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Martinsville, IN
Posts: 454
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Superior talked me out of buying their 320 when I purchased years ago. I wanted fuel savings and they pointed out that the 360 will have same fuel burn if you duplicate the 320 settings with your throttle. Minimal cost difference, and you end up with a better climb rate and top speed when you need it. I don?t recall if there was a weight penalty, but I?m 50 lbs heavier than I used to be - engine weight isn?t an issue for me.
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Better is the enemy of good enough!
Don
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03-02-2019, 10:23 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Greene, NY
Posts: 82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH
J.B. is doing his job, as he should. Business is business.
While on the subject, remember Superior also sells 320's and 360's. Sometimes less is more.
From the most recent Kitplanes Engine Buyers Guide:
XP-O-320-A1AC2 160 carb, fixed pitch $26300
XP-IO-320-A1AC2 165 HP injected, fixed pitch $27100
XP-O-360-A1AC2 180 HP carb, fixed pitch $26300
XP-IO-360-A1AC2 185 HP injected, fixed pitch $27100
XP-O-320-B1AC2 160 HP carb, constant speed $26600
XP-IO-320-B1AC2 165 HP injected, constant speed $27400
XP-O-360-B1AC2 180 HP injected, constant speed $26600
XP-IO-360-B1AC2 185 HP injected, constant speed $27400
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Dan - Thanks for summarizing the options from Superior. For me, the key drivers are:
1. Timing and availability of various engines. Hate to cut into the flying season in the North East after the long winter!
2. Avoiding major rework to my current baffle system. In this regard, I'm thinking an IO390 would be darn near a drop in replacement. Next closest would be an angle valve IO 360 and might get away with minimal rework.
3. An opportunity to try a "less is more" approach with regards to both hp and weight. Currently with the XP-400 my empty weight is 1150. I figure a parallel valve option would save around 25 pounds of weight from the nose and 8-10 pounds of lead currently in the tail at the expense of 15-20 hp.
4. Not sweating CHTs and oil temps on hot days...seems like this would favor an angle valve motor (IO 360/390) but careful attention to the baffles should mitigate this issue.
I primarily use my airplane for cross country travel and once I reach cruising altitude, set up for 10 gph somewhere between 22 and 23 square. The extra hp (and weight) really only help with the climb phase since 10 gph with either parallel valve or angle valve would presumably make the same power at the same fuel burn setting and yield the same cruise speed. Top speed numbers are fun to brag about but honestly never really fly anything close to flat out for my normal mission. It would be interesting to see the tradeoff between 25 pounds of weight and 15-20 hp on rate of climb. Essentially I'm lugging around the extra weight in order to get to altitude (say 8000 feet) 30 seconds or so sooner (and burning a bit more fuel that could extend range).
Decisions decisions.....
Moving forward, I'll post what I find out regarding options. One that looks promising based on recent conversations with Barrette is using my 400 as a "core" and building up an 0390 using the Lycoming crank and cylinder assemblies. The folks at Barrett are talking to the folks at Superior about this option and hopefully I'll know more about this on Monday. In the meantime, it's off to the hanger to finish pulling the motor and getting it ready to ship...
__________________
Chris Engler, Greene, NY
RV 8 Completed and Flying (N184CE), Showplanes Fastback and Cowl, Barrett IO-360; Dual GRT 10.4 HXr
Kitfox 7; Rotax 914, Built and Sold
VAF donation gladly paid through January 2021
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03-10-2019, 01:49 PM
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Join Date: May 2017
Location: Santa Rosa
Posts: 4
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I'm one of the unfortunate who used the XP-400, but am sad to see it go. It performed very well on my 14A. I'm now looking at the Lycoming 390 Thunderbolt as as replacement, but I'd like to keep the Superior cold air induction system. Has anyone had experience with fitting the Superior cold air induction to the oil pan/sump of a Lycpoming??
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03-10-2019, 06:58 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3XBuilder
I'm one of the unfortunate who used the XP-400, but am sad to see it go. It performed very well on my 14A. I'm now looking at the Lycoming 390 Thunderbolt as as replacement, but I'd like to keep the Superior cold air induction system. Has anyone had experience with fitting the Superior cold air induction to the oil pan/sump of a Lycpoming??
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Many folks have done it on the 360, not sure about the 390 - does that use the same 360 case?
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid 
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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03-10-2019, 08:21 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 268
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3XBuilder:
According to Darren J at Aero Sport Power, the Superior cold air induction sump is a bolt-on replacement on the Lycoming 390. According to Jeff S at Thunderbolt, they will not install any OEM items not on their approved list, and the Superior sump is not on that list - you’d be on your own to do that.
Edit: the “bolt on” fit of the Superior sump has been questioned - do not rely on this input!
Now, Lycoming has a a cold air induction sump for the 390 - it is the C series engine (as in C3B6) listed as 215 HP. I have not been offered it on my Thunderbolt order - open question for Jeff S. I’m also unsure of the impact on exhaust, cowl and cable fits.
__________________
Keith Brown
RV-14A Builder - kit #136
N314KC - First flight Mar 8, 2017, 24th in the air, >600 hrs
XP-400 Aero Sport Power, replaced with Lyc Thunderbolt 390
RV-6A sold
Sport Pilot (weight-shift control) - Airborne XT912
Dues paid 9/2020
Last edited by KeithB : 03-12-2019 at 04:58 PM.
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