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  #31  
Old 02-14-2019, 05:31 PM
romaja romaja is offline
 
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[quote=DaleB;1324749]Sure thing, Jim.

Line maintenance manual, 05-20-00, P. 3, "Notes":
Quote:
This maintenance schedule contains a column for a 50 hr. check. This check is recommended by the manufacturer but not essential, with the exception of oil change when operating with leaded AVGAS (emphasis mine).

Line maintenance manual, 05-20-00, PP. 16-17, "Oil Change": Note that it's a 100 hour item. All line items for task 15 (Oil change) that are marked "every 50 hr." carry the note (1). For that note, refer to P. 12: "Leaded fuel more than 30% of operation". That note is also reproduced in the second line item for checking and cleaning the oil tank. Again, a 200 hour item unless you're burning leaded gas more than 30% of the time, then it's a 100 hour item.

I didn't just overhear something random in the Rotax tent and draw a conclusion from it. I read the Line Maintenance Manual, then referred to the later Service Instructions regarding more frequent oil changes when using leaded gas. What I understood those documents to say was not what I had heard from other RV-12 owners -- in other words, unofficial sources of varying and suspect expertise. I had a specific question, I asked a Rotax factory rep and got a very unambiguous answer. If you thoroughly read the manual, I believe you will see what I'm talking about. If not, then by all means don't let me discourage you from changing your oil as often as you please.
I now see the X in the 100hour column and understand your point. 50 hours appears to be the recommended interval only. Thanks for reference. Seems to be a bit vague and ambiguous but concede you are correct.

Quite frankly I am surprised that they would X the 100 hour box. That seems like a long time between oil changes. My oil seems pretty black at 50 hours although
that doesn't mean the oil is spent. I am not confident most people have picked up on this 100 hour interval including myself. The Rotax trained mechanics that I know haven't spoke of this as well. Regardless, I figured you were confident in your assessment since you directed me "read the manual again". Gutsy move Maveric!! !

Best,
Jim
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  #32  
Old 02-16-2019, 09:48 AM
Flynfrfun Flynfrfun is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmillhouse View Post
My opinion: Built a 9A and flew it 536 hours and now about 350 hours for a 12. I'd say if you can do it all yourself, maintenance costs are probably slightly less for the Lycoming. Everything costs more for the Rotax than it should since you can only buy from Rotax. As an example the float issue is ridiculous at $80 per float with four required.

Fuel burn is less and you can use auto gas but appropriate alcohol free fuel is almost the price of avgas and you have to buy avgas on x-countries. If you use the same fuel than economy is about the same. The 12 uses about 30% less fuel in cruise than a Lycoming but it is about 30% slower. I had to sell my 9 due to medical issues and switch to LSA until I got a special issuance. Now I'm finishing up on a new 7A. Once you had a traditional RV, a LSA just is not the same.

So visibility and entry + to the RV-12. Probably the best LSA you can get, but it is a LSA. Speed, climb performance, baggage and people capacity and a constant speed prop to the Lycoming powered RVs. Slight differences in maintenance and fuel cost an hour for your dream should not be an issue when you are already investing in the vicinity of $100k or more for a new bird.
Thanks for the input Scott, this is the kind of real world info I was hoping to see.

Josh
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  #33  
Old 02-16-2019, 03:37 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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[quote=romaja;1324761]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
Sure thing, Jim.

Line maintenance manual, 05-20-00, P. 3, "Notes":

I now see the X in the 100hour column and understand your point. 50 hours appears to be the recommended interval only. Thanks for reference. Seems to be a bit vague and ambiguous but concede you are correct.

Quite frankly I am surprised that they would X the 100 hour box. That seems like a long time between oil changes. My oil seems pretty black at 50 hours although
that doesn't mean the oil is spent. I am not confident most people have picked up on this 100 hour interval including myself. The Rotax trained mechanics that I know haven't spoke of this as well. Regardless, I figured you were confident in your assessment since you directed me "read the manual again". Gutsy move Maveric!! !

Best,
Jim
100 hrs is (and has been for as long as I have worked with the 912) the required oil change interval.

The recommended interval as published in a service instruction is 50 hrs (and 25 hrs if leaded fuel is used more than just occasionally).
Why the difference? I don't know. Maybe it is the Rotax marketing department being creative. Rotax experts and experienced mechanics will generally recommend following the Service Instruction recommendation.
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  #34  
Old 02-16-2019, 06:32 PM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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That was why I asked the factory rep. The SI that I read was, in my humble opinion, unclear (and they agreed, to some degree). The latest version of SI-912-016 doesn't specify a number of hours between for either occasional or constant use of leaded fuel. It just says, "more frequent". For unleaded, it says the service schedule published in the maintenance manual is unchanged. That's SI-912-016R10, the 12/20/2017 version.
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  #35  
Old 02-16-2019, 07:46 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
That was why I asked the factory rep. The SI that I read was, in my humble opinion, unclear (and they agreed, to some degree). The latest version of SI-912-016 doesn't specify a number of hours between for either occasional or constant use of leaded fuel. It just says, "more frequent". For unleaded, it says the service schedule published in the maintenance manual is unchanged. That's SI-912-016R10, the 12/20/2017 version.
I haven't looked at the SI in detail for a while.... I seem to remember it specifically saying 25 Hrs for higher usage of leaded fuel so they may have revised that at some point. Not sure.
When Phil Lockwood does his Rotax forums, he has always recommended 33 hrs. That way every third oil change has you at the proper time for doing the 100 hr inspection.

Edit I just looked at some older rev. levels of 912-016 and it did indeed recommend 50 hrs and 25 hours when operating "primarily" on leaded fuel.
They seem to have softened there stance/details on that in later versions of the SI. Perhaps under pressure of the marketing department?
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Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")

Last edited by rvbuilder2002 : 02-16-2019 at 07:57 PM.
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  #36  
Old 02-17-2019, 04:54 AM
Bob Y Bob Y is offline
 
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I’m still in the process of building, so pardon the ignorant question, but if one flys say 40 hours/year, does it mean that 20 hours after the second annual condition inspection one needs to conduct the battery of 100 hour inspections as well? Just trying to wrap my head around calendar time vs. hobbs time regarding inspections.
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  #37  
Old 02-17-2019, 07:26 AM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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No, you won't be required to do other than Annual Condition Inspection for experimental airplane. 100 hour inspection is required for certified aircraft being used for commercial purpose...
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  #38  
Old 02-17-2019, 07:42 AM
Bob Y Bob Y is offline
 
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Thanks for the clarification. I am aware of the 100 hour requirement when used for hire. So I guess in the context of this forum, the inspections are 12 months, or 100 hours, whichever comes first. Thanks again.
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  #39  
Old 02-17-2019, 08:13 AM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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No, if you're building experimental airplane, then only Annual Condition Inspection is required. 100 hour inspection is not required.

Also, if you're building your RV-12 as E-LSA (not EAB), then you are permitted to do your own condition inspection if you take 16 hour training class and apply to FAA for rating which is good only for the plane you own.
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80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
Bought Flying RV-12 #120058 Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 622

LSRM-A Certificate 2016 for RV-12 N633CM
Special Thanks... EJ Trucks - USN Crew Chief A-4 Skyhawk
MJ Stricker (Father & CFI) - USAAF 1st Lt. Captain B-17H
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  #40  
Old 02-17-2019, 08:25 AM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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BTW, on the subject of oil... I pulled up my Blackstone Labs report from our oil sample after the first 100-hour oil change cycle. I'd been changing it at 50 hours up until the last one. Coincidentally and conveniently, we flew almost exactly 100 hours in between condition inspections. And again, we very, very rarely burn any leaded gas, maybe 20-50 gallons a year.

Quote:
Metals are in great shape for such a long run, and iron is fine at 75 ppm (it's wear rate per-hour is quite low, indicating good wear at steel parts).
The viscosity numbers are fine, as is the flashpoint and every other number I see on the report. I was very happy to see the report, and will continue to have Blackstone do the oil analysis at every oil change.
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