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  #51  
Old 02-13-2019, 09:44 PM
rongawer rongawer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 775
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I wanted to share my experience early this morning as I?ve gotten more and more XW experience in my RV12.

Today I was able to explore what I think are the upper boundaries of XW?s in my 12. I had 160@41 KT, which presented about 35KT HW and 20.5KT XW in the pouring rain this morning. Aside from being crabbed about 15? to the right and just over 30KT ground speed, it was pretty much a non-event. I find that the rudder has plenty of authority to crab down to the runway and then kick the nose around into alignment and set the upwind gear onto the runway. I then let the left gear down to the runway, set the nose down and then pretty much came to a stop after that without any brakes. I had to power up to get to the turnoff and then had to use power and brakes to finagle my way to the tie-down.

My fellow commuter was laughing and joked that it seemed like an ?austin powers? getaway scene taking so long to get to the runway.

All in all, I?d say that?s about on verge of a limit for the airplane. I think it could handle a couple more knots XW for the landing, but taxiing sucked.

Afterward, I noted that the rain did an excellent job shining up the aluminum.

Separately, there was windshear at 2000? indicated at 55KT; coming down through that was, shall we say, ?bumpy?. 90KIAS worked well, and the stick and rudders got a great work out too. The TAF for tomorrow is a little better with less rain, should be another fun ride.
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  #52  
Old 02-13-2019, 10:18 PM
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pstraub pstraub is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Hensley Airpark, TN
Posts: 161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rongawer View Post
I wanted to share my experience early this morning as I?ve gotten more and more XW experience in my RV12.

Today I was able to explore what I think are the upper boundaries of XW?s in my 12. I had 160@41 KT, which presented about 35KT HW and 20.5KT XW in the pouring rain this morning. Aside from being crabbed about 15? to the right and just over 30KT ground speed, it was pretty much a non-event. I find that the rudder has plenty of authority to crab down to the runway and then kick the nose around into alignment and set the upwind gear onto the runway. I then let the left gear down to the runway, set the nose down and then pretty much came to a stop after that without any brakes. I had to power up to get to the turnoff and then had to use power and brakes to finagle my way to the tie-down.

My fellow commuter was laughing and joked that it seemed like an ?austin powers? getaway scene taking so long to get to the runway.

All in all, I?d say that?s about on verge of a limit for the airplane. I think it could handle a couple more knots XW for the landing, but taxiing sucked.

Afterward, I noted that the rain did an excellent job shining up the aluminum.

Separately, there was windshear at 2000? indicated at 55KT; coming down through that was, shall we say, ?bumpy?. 90KIAS worked well, and the stick and rudders got a great work out too. The TAF for tomorrow is a little better with less rain, should be another fun ride.
Great update Ron, thanks for playing test pilot and sharing the data! You are going to become legend over there at KPAO. Would be funny to see a bunch of Bonanza pilots on the ground, waiting for the weather to improve....and here comes Ron shooting an approach in his little IFR RV-12. (What wind shear??)
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  #53  
Old 02-14-2019, 11:34 AM
rongawer rongawer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pstraub View Post
Great update Ron, thanks for playing test pilot and sharing the data! You are going to become legend over there at KPAO. Would be funny to see a bunch of Bonanza pilots on the ground, waiting for the weather to improve....and here comes Ron shooting an approach in his little IFR RV-12. (What wind shear??)
Thanks Paul; I'll try to live up to your kind words.

I do want to point out that I take a methodical approach to risk management and careful to flight plan every day (both ways), but one of my main goals is to maximize the use of the RV-12's excellent capability and exploring the full envelope of ability is fun too, however I remind myself daily about "old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots".

I'll share with the group what you and I've discussed previously, and that's that I built my RV-12 purposely for commuting. And for that specific task, I believe it's one of the best use cases for cost and capability. And I get some great views on the way home some days too.

Looking at the recent snow on the Altamont's to the south


Me and my fellow commuter
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  #54  
Old 02-14-2019, 12:47 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 1,193
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Ron, if you like testing... and I don't doubt you're quite skilled, that you weighed heavily the mission of your personal build AB RV-12, and that uber healthy and peppy UL 350IS, I'd get some flight box orange jackets for visibility, just in case you go down... never know when someone might need to try to find you... make it easy on them.

Personally, I've decided to carry a rather strong green laser that runs on a 18650 LiPo cell, in case of emergencies... any particle matter in the air at night makes it stand out like a spotlight. At night, it would be very, very easy to signal via morse code a ... --- ... the universal distress signal. I am certain if not cloudy, it would carry a long, long ways. That and a good flashlight. YMMV, any better suggestions for worst case scenario, I am all ears... I like the Boy Scout motto, Be Prepared.

It's also OK to become a legend at C83.

Last edited by NinerBikes : 02-14-2019 at 12:55 PM.
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  #55  
Old 02-14-2019, 03:18 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
Personally, I've decided to carry a rather strong green laser that runs on a 18650 LiPo cell, in case of emergencies... any particle matter in the air at night makes it stand out like a spotlight. At night, it would be very, very easy to signal via morse code a ... --- ... the universal distress signal. I am certain if not cloudy, it would carry a long, long ways. That and a good flashlight. YMMV, any better suggestions for worst case scenario, I am all ears... I like the Boy Scout motto, Be Prepared.
.
I guess it might have value if you could get the attention of a random over flying airplane but Search and Rescue rarely fly's at night so it will be of limited value with them.
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  #56  
Old 02-14-2019, 03:31 PM
rongawer rongawer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
Ron, if you like testing... and I don't doubt you're quite skilled, that you weighed heavily the mission of your personal build AB RV-12, and that uber healthy and peppy UL 350IS, I'd get some flight box orange jackets for visibility, just in case you go down... never know when someone might need to try to find you... make it easy on them.

Personally, I've decided to carry a rather strong green laser that runs on a 18650 LiPo cell, in case of emergencies... any particle matter in the air at night makes it stand out like a spotlight. At night, it would be very, very easy to signal via morse code a ... --- ... the universal distress signal. I am certain if not cloudy, it would carry a long, long ways. That and a good flashlight. YMMV, any better suggestions for worst case scenario, I am all ears... I like the Boy Scout motto, Be Prepared.

It's also OK to become a legend at C83.
I appreciate the feedback. Regarding C83, the airport operation manager jokingly said they've had to cut back on overtime now that I'm no longer fueling the Baron there weekly

I do carry a portable radio and PLB, which I think is very useful for locating and communicating in the event of an off-field landing, but a flashlight is in my bag too.

All of that aside, it's not too far between C83 and KPAO and it's pretty much all over fairly populated terrain. In a worst case scenario, I'm likely a couple miles walk from the nearest Starbucks - unless I'm dead, in which case the satellite based ELT with GPS data can let the insurance company know where their airplane and my body is located.
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  #57  
Old 02-14-2019, 03:59 PM
n74846 n74846 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Boca Raton, FL BCT
Posts: 140
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I carry an ACR strobe in addition to the PLB and radio. Supposed to assist in night ID within a few miles.
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  #58  
Old 02-14-2019, 05:16 PM
Longmire Longmire is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alpine, WY
Posts: 11
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I would like to hear about the other approach to cross-wind landings which is to descend from the last few hundred feet in the "wing-low" configuration all the way to landing, vs the crab method. I find in my ArcherII the wing-low seems to be most consistent and with more stabilized approach all the way to touchdown.
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  #59  
Old 02-14-2019, 06:42 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 7,859
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Originally Posted by Longmire View Post
I would like to hear about the other approach to cross-wind landings which is to descend from the last few hundred feet in the "wing-low" configuration all the way to landing, vs the crab method. .
I use the "long final in a slip" method to teach students use of the controls in a crosswind landing. However, most pilots find flying the aircraft in a coordinated wings level, crabbed approach to be more natural, less work. So they progressively delay the transition to side slip later and later, eventually combining the whole maneuver (take out the crab, enter side slip) into one, just prior to touchdown (as Rod did). A few reasons to do so: (1) the cross wind is often stronger at anything above 50' agl, and your Archer will run out of rudder in an attempt to side slip only. This may cause you to abandon the approach early, when in fact the wind eases off a bit lower. (2) Even when the cross wind exceeds your slip capability, the "just prior to touchdown" procedure can get you in safely: if you touch down the upwind wheel almost immediately, there is no time for any significant drift to develop.
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  #60  
Old 02-14-2019, 09:04 PM
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Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,576
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Time for me to be the stick in the mud again.

Unless there's some dire emergency, why push your luck? Suppose you get away with 24 knots xwind, but the next time you try it, you bend your airplane. Is that a win?

And for the rest of the folks who celebrate crosswind machismo, why is that worth celebrating? And will that tempt folks to try things beyond their skill level? Are scared pilots, bent airplanes and occasional bashed pilot worth it?

C'mon, guys, man up.

Ed
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