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  #1  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:16 AM
TXFlyGuy TXFlyGuy is offline
 
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Default 20+ G Deceleration...Survivable?

I just read a full accident report on an experimental aircraft that was involved in a fatal crash. There were too many contributing factors to the fatality to list here (read the report), but the NZ CAA determined the vertical impact G load was near 20 G's. And the horizontal G load was over 7 G's.

Of interest was the fact that the restraint system was attached to the seat frame, which was welded to the stringers (aircraft fuselage frame). The welds failed on the left hand side. This allowed the pilot to be flailed into the glare shield and instrument panel. Instant death. He was 80 years old, not that that had any impact on the event.

It is my thinking that the 20 G's were an overall contributing factor to the welds failing.

How many 20+ G impacts by RV aircraft have been survived by the pilot? Are 20 G crashes very common, and are they normally easily survived by pilot/passengers?

While this particular fatal crash did not involve an RV, it makes for educational reading. The report is well written by the New Zealand CAA.

Here is a link: https://www.caa.govt.nz/assets/legac...-SMF-Fatal.pdf

I'm not seeking a critique of the accident aircraft (beat to death already), rather information on harness systems.

And, how many here have a restraint system that would easily withstand a 20+ G load, and save your butt? Probably everyone on this forum.

I just ordered a custom harness from Crow Enterprises. In addition, we are re-making our seat cushions, utilizing special G load absorbing memory foam. You know, that Green, Blue and Pink stuff!
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Last edited by TXFlyGuy : 02-02-2019 at 05:24 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:11 AM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Default URL correction

Hi,

I think your url got truncated.

Code:
https://www.caa.govt.nz/assets/legacy/Accidents_and_Incidents/Accident_Reports/ZK-SMF-Fatal.pdf
https://www.caa.govt.nz/assets/legac...-SMF-Fatal.pdf

https://www.caa.govt.nz/assets/legac...-SMF-Fatal.pdf
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  #3  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:17 AM
TXFlyGuy TXFlyGuy is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv8ch View Post
Hi,

I think your url got truncated.

Code:
https://www.caa.govt.nz/assets/legacy/Accidents_and_Incidents/Accident_Reports/ZK-SMF-Fatal.pdf
https://www.caa.govt.nz/assets/legac...-SMF-Fatal.pdf

https://www.caa.govt.nz/assets/legac...-SMF-Fatal.pdf
Yes, thanks.
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Old 02-02-2019, 07:21 AM
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N520TX N520TX is offline
 
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Default 24G Impact

There are more than a few former Grumman pilots who are now Vans owners. This is a youtube video from Roscoe that walks you through *his* 24.5 G forced landing of a Grumman AA1B this past year up in the Cincinnati area. Definitely survivable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQktd6vJIwo
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Last edited by N520TX : 02-02-2019 at 07:43 AM. Reason: added the link ... duh
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  #5  
Old 02-02-2019, 07:37 AM
TXFlyGuy TXFlyGuy is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by N520TX View Post
There are more than a few former Grumman pilots who are now Vans owners. This is a youtube video from Roscoe that walks you through *his* 24.5 G forced landing of a Grumman AA1A this past year up in the Cincinnati area. Definitely survivable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQktd6vJIwo
Dang! Pretty amazing. So, the restraint system failed? The pilot hit his head on the windscreen (3 times?).
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Last edited by TXFlyGuy : 02-02-2019 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 02-02-2019, 07:58 AM
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N520TX N520TX is offline
 
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Default Not the best restraints

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXFlyGuy View Post
Dang! Pretty amazing. So, the restraint system failed? The pilot hit his head on the windscreen (3 times?).
The AA1 series of aircraft didn't have the 4 point restraints, just 3 point. It's very easy to slide out sideways from the single shoulder harness. I suspect that played a part in this.
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Last edited by N520TX : 02-02-2019 at 08:06 AM.
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2019, 08:01 AM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Default 60 mph - 6 ft stopping distance - 20g

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXFlyGuy View Post
...
How many 20+ G impacts by RV aircraft have been survived by the pilot? Are 20 G crashes very common, and are they normally easily survived by pilot/passengers? ...
Stopping in 6 feet from 60 mph will give you a nice 20g experience if the online calculator here is accurate - too lazy to do the math myself.

https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/car-crash-force

I'm sure many off-field landings are less than 60 mph, but it seemed a nice round number.
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  #8  
Old 02-02-2019, 08:09 AM
F1R F1R is offline
 
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Default Try -55 G or +83 G

Col John Stap really laid it on the line with his rocket sled deceleration rides in May of 1958. I doubt there will be many volunteers try to even match what he survived at -55G.
Capt. Eli Beeding had a bit tougher experience at +83 G but reportedly was back at work in a few days.

https://youtu.be/siau78EFLgc
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  #9  
Old 02-02-2019, 08:14 AM
andrewtac andrewtac is online now
 
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Default

I can’t remember the approximate ejection seat G, but I believe it is in excess of 20g. We can take a pretty large spike, but for only a brief amount of time. It is a function of g and time that kills. That being said, wreckage is different than a pure accel/deccel.

The wiki link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force has some good info on human tolerance.
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  #10  
Old 02-02-2019, 08:29 AM
TXFlyGuy TXFlyGuy is offline
 
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Default

Well, pardon me for not being explicit.

How many "crash events" that are 20+ G's prove to be survivable? Of interest is the RV aircraft, and in general other experimental types. And the associated restraint systems.

It is understood that we can survive 35, 40, or more G's in an environmentally controlled deceleration.
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Last edited by TXFlyGuy : 02-02-2019 at 08:46 AM.
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