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01-31-2019, 09:50 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kalispell, MT
Posts: 40
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What's your legal IFR/EFIS setup?
I've been trying hard to get my head around how to equip an experimental for legal IFR flight. Would love to have WAAS, but I am having a hard time understanding how a TSO unit like a 430W will interface with an experimental Dynon or MGL EFIS. Do they really interact with each other during an approach or is one of the two pieces of equipment just along for the ride to keep you legal?
What is your setup for legal IFR?
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Geek out... 
RV-8: Empennage underway
N406RR reserved
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01-31-2019, 10:34 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Brookshire, TX
Posts: 1,036
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I'm only in the planning stages of my panel, but to my knowledge the only "interfacing" that goes on between a TSO'd unit like a GTN650 and an EFIS like a Skyview system is that the GPS will drive the HSI on the EFIS. There may be better integration with a G3X panel (such as passing flight plans around), but I'm set on Dynon and so I can't really comment on anything else.
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Philip
-8 fuselage in progress (remember when I thought the wing kit had a lot of parts? HAHAHAHAHA)
http://rv.squawk1200.net
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02-01-2019, 07:00 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: WARNER ROBINS, GA
Posts: 391
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I?m in the middle of learning how my Skyview & 650 play with each other. Having spent 2 days with Jesse Saint, he knows how to make it work very well, I?ll tell u it?s AMAZING. Fly the plan using Skyview and switch to the approach with the 650. With the push of a button. Still learning, but it flies the GPS or ILS approach down to the runway. I?m sure others can tell u more.
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Keith
RV 7A RV #9700 May 2017
N325KS the Flying “K”
Built in SoCal KCCB, now in GA @ KPXE
550+ Hours & 7X cross the USA
OSH flyin 2018 & 2019 & Petit Jean 2019
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02-01-2019, 07:02 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 4,196
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There's no special magic for certified avionics. RS-232 and ARINC work the same regardless. Most vendors will provide you schematics in their documentation. Their installation instructions will answer your questions. They are free to download to anyone.
For all the certified GPS's, the RS-232 output will provide Lat/Lon and ARINC will provide all the other data your autopilot and EFIS will use.
If this isn't really your bag of tea, then I would suggest an AFS/Dynon Preconfigured panel or working with Airtronics or SteinAir to design a panel.
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02-01-2019, 07:04 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL USA
Posts: 546
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IFR Setup
Avidyne IFD-440 interfaced to Dynon Skyview via ARINC-429 and to a Garmin GDU-375 MFD via RS-232/MapMX. Garmin G5 for backup attitude. The Avidyne drives the HSI on the Dynon and the Dynon will receive and use the Avidyne's flight plan on the Dynon map. The Garmin also receives and uses the Avidyne's flight plan on it's map
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Dan Langhout
2020 =VAF= Dues PAID . . . . .
RV-7 N528DP slow build
First Flight July 26th, 2014
665 hours and counting . . . .
Now based at Moontown (3M5)
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02-01-2019, 07:21 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kalispell, MT
Posts: 40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotkms
Fly the plan using Skyview and switch to the approach with the 650. With the push of a button.
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Thanks...this gets to the heart of my question. What is the role of each piece of equipment during a flight? Are you using "certified" position data during the enroute phase or are you using the "unofficial, situational awareness" data from the SkyView and then switching to the "certified" data, and database, for the approach phase?
Seems like the EFIS equipment is totally capable but you need the magic paper (TSO) to be legal? Is there just a $7,000 cover charge to get in to The Legal IFR Club?
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Geek out... 
RV-8: Empennage underway
N406RR reserved
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02-01-2019, 07:57 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 2,596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ops_geek
Thanks...this gets to the heart of my question. What is the role of each piece of equipment during a flight? Are you using "certified" position data during the enroute phase or are you using the "unofficial, situational awareness" data from the SkyView and then switching to the "certified" data, and database, for the approach phase?
Seems like the EFIS equipment is totally capable but you need the magic paper (TSO) to be legal? Is there just a $7,000 cover charge to get in to The Legal IFR Club?
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I know of SkyView/GTN-650 owners who will argue over proper proceedure. I?ll just share what I do:
- I have configured the SkyView to use the flight plan provided via the GTN-650. I do this because I wanted to maintain consistency for IFR work, and not be switching between the SkyView flightplan and the GTN-650 flightplan.
- The SkyView WiFi interface does a magical job of allow you do upload your flightplan from your iPad ForeFlight. Great for VFR but unfortunately since Garmin is a spoiled brat you cannot upload it to the GTN-650 without purchasing a grossly overpriced Garmin add on box. As most cross country flight plans have perhaps 3-4 points, I just manually load the plan into the GTN-650 as the engine warms up. Activate the plan and there it is on the SkyView - easy to verify.
Note - I know the G3X can do the transfer from ForeFlight then the GTN-650. I choose the SkyView over the G3X so no need to badger me on this.
The SkyView provides all the needed IFR GPS backup you will need if the GTN-650 dies. Not legal but it will get you home.
Note - the SkyView displays the approach, STAR, SID or arrival from the GTN-650. SkyView does not have this in its NAV database. You can manually put points in and create an artificial GPS approach but again, illegal as well as not practical.
If you want to go old school, skip the GTN-650 and fly VORs, LOC and ILS approaches. I offer however I do not consider this a valid option as the places I fly rarely have ILS, but tend to have at least one GPS approach.
Rumors fly about Dynon coming out with its own integrated TSO GPS navigator - but just rumors. We can only hope as this would be a much needed shot in the arm for healthy competition.
Carl
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02-01-2019, 08:19 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 5,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ops_geek
I've been trying hard to get my head around how to equip an experimental for legal IFR flight. Would love to have WAAS, but I am having a hard time understanding how a TSO unit like a 430W will interface with an experimental Dynon or MGL EFIS. Do they really interact with each other during an approach or is one of the two pieces of equipment just along for the ride to keep you legal?
What is your setup for legal IFR?
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All you need for the perfect IFR panel for the 8...

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Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)
EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
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02-01-2019, 08:27 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Collierville, TN (KFYE)
Posts: 1,433
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I have the Flightstream 510 chip plugged into my 650 and love it. I download my database updates to Garmin Pilot and then it automatically connects to the FS 510 and uploads the database changes. I never have to touch the chip. Yes it's expensive, but so is everything else. I never use the Dynon GPS or flight planning. It's all on the 650. I basically use the Dynon as a HSI and moving map, along with the other engine and sensor stuff. Foreflight automatically connects to the FS 510 so I just upload my flight plans directly to the 650 with a one button touch on the ipad.
__________________
RV-8 #81077 Super Slow Build
Dynon Skyview HDX, Titan IOX-370, Dual P-Mags, AFP FM200A FI, Whirlwind 200RV CS Prop
First Flight 11/20/2016
www.marksrv8.com
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02-01-2019, 08:40 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ____
Posts: 829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ops_geek
Thanks...this gets to the heart of my question. What is the role of each piece of equipment during a flight? Are you using "certified" position data during the enroute phase or are you using the "unofficial, situational awareness" data from the SkyView and then switching to the "certified" data, and database, for the approach phase?
Seems like the EFIS equipment is totally capable but you need the magic paper (TSO) to be legal? Is there just a $7,000 cover charge to get in to The Legal IFR Club?
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Do you already have an instrument rating?
To over simplify,
The EFIS is fist and foremost a flight instrument. Air speed, attitude and altitude.
The TSO'd GPS NAV units (such as GTN 650 or 750 or G430W ) have the capability to accept legal and current approach DATA BASES with way points and the units can and will automatically sequence the waypoints on a selected approach . These units can output to a stand alone CDI or to the CDI displayed on most of the sport grade EFIS units.
If you do an IFR rating it will be easier to get your head around what you want in your panel. In general, motels and rental cars or commercial flights and some tie down fees are more cost effective than keeping a state of the art panel , and rating and every database up to date and legal. Just a matter of how much money you want to spend and what your priorities are.
An IFR rating after you have your private licence is a great learning experience.
Then you can make a more informed decision just how much money you want to sink into your panel.
I will no doubt get flamed beyond what nomex protection can offer for this.
With 2020 ADS-B deadline approaching, you really can't build a low cost panel unless you are in remote area and only want to fly outside of controlled airspace.
And low cost IFR, does not exist.
Last edited by F1R : 02-01-2019 at 08:44 AM.
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