VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #11  
Old 01-29-2019, 08:53 PM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,514
Default

If you go back and look at the the crank failure on the Titan 400, and this one, it was a classic pressure induced fatigue of the inside fillet on the underside of the pin at TDC. Force on the rod at TDC tends to spread the cheeks against the main bearings.

Just because it was pressure induced, does not mean the crank fatigue strength was correct. There is a lot of processing that ensures the fillets are the toughest part of the crank.

If a chain breaks, either reduce the load or make the chain stronger.
__________________
Bill

RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-29-2019, 09:33 PM
Tommy123 Tommy123 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Naples fl
Posts: 140
Default What?

[quote=N941WR;1320716]As they say in (auto) racing, an engine runs its best just before it blows up.

Good luck![/QUO

You just make that up?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-29-2019, 11:35 PM
Chris Engler Chris Engler is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Greene, NY
Posts: 82
Default Back it Goes....

I have serial number 4 and spoke with Superior for a while today regarding the history and proposed fix. From my conversation and as stated in the SB, there is a history of detonation induced damage with some cranks. Superior's analysis has included finite element analysis of the crank based on recorded cylinder pressures while running at both 25 and 20 degrees of advance. At the 20 degree setting, pressures and resulting computed stresses were greatly reduced and resulted in an "infinite" fatigue life cycle for the crank.

The SB work will include ND testing of the crank, pistons, and rods, installation of new bearings and gaskets, and run time in the test cell. All shipping, shop labor, and parts associated with SB related issues will be covered by Superior. Turn around time is currently running 4-6 weeks from the time the engine arrives to the time they initiate the return shipping.
__________________
Chris Engler, Greene, NY

RV 8 Completed and Flying (N184CE), Showplanes Fastback and Cowl, Barrett IO-360; Dual GRT 10.4 HXr

Kitfox 7; Rotax 914, Built and Sold

VAF donation gladly paid through January 2021
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-30-2019, 04:54 AM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
As they say in (auto) racing, an engine runs its best just before it blows up.

Good luck!
You just make that up?
Nope, it was a common saying back when I was racing.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-30-2019, 05:17 AM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Engler View Post
I have serial number 4 and spoke with Superior for a while today regarding the history and proposed fix. From my conversation and as stated in the SB, there is a history of detonation induced damage with some cranks. Superior's analysis has included finite element analysis of the crank based on recorded cylinder pressures while running at both 25 and 20 degrees of advance. At the 20 degree setting, pressures and resulting computed stresses were greatly reduced and resulted in an "infinite" fatigue life cycle for the crank.

The SB work will include ND testing of the crank, pistons, and rods, installation of new bearings and gaskets, and run time in the test cell. All shipping, shop labor, and parts associated with SB related issues will be covered by Superior. Turn around time is currently running 4-6 weeks from the time the engine arrives to the time they initiate the return shipping.
Long term detonation would certainly explain failures and the 20 degree timing recommendation would do a lot to nix any detonation. From the discussion above, the design sounds a bit marginal IMO and if this was known for some time, why wasn't the lower timing setting mandated before?
__________________

Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.0 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm


Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-30-2019, 08:26 AM
theduff theduff is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Fallbrook Calif.
Posts: 276
Default XP-400 Crank failure

They have 5 documented crank failures now. One occurred last week with an engine only running 20 degree timing. It’s being shipped to a reputable repair station for tear down. If your flying a 382 or 400 I would ground it. When people’s lives are at stake the only responsible thing we as members of this small community of experimental aviation can do is spread the word. I’m told they made 200 of these crankshafts and I wonder how many of the participants know of the risks they’re taking.

Last edited by theduff : 01-30-2019 at 08:41 AM. Reason: VAF policies
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-30-2019, 08:57 AM
KeithB's Avatar
KeithB KeithB is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 267
Default

My understanding is that most owners of XP-400s have been contacted by Superior (subject to the limits of owner records accuracy) by phone, and well before the SB was actually issued. I received a call (grounding my plane) on Dec 3 - I think the delays in the SB being issued were bureaucratic (legal review). I also had the advantage of being an hour+ drive from their facility. My engine was in their shop 4 days after the call and back in my hands 2 weeks later - probably a best case. The engine was installed before year end and I have 25 hours logged on it since the tear down - no issues.
I was treated very well by Superior and commend them for their customer service (I describe the experience as the best possible outcome from an unfortunate circumstance).
__________________
Keith Brown

RV-14A Builder - kit #136
N314KC - First flight Mar 8, 2017, 24th in the air, >600 hrs
XP-400 Aero Sport Power, replaced with Lyc Thunderbolt 390
RV-6A sold
Sport Pilot (weight-shift control) - Airborne XT912
Dues paid 9/2020
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-30-2019, 11:19 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,514
Default Anyone know???

Anybody know how they got the extra 1/4" of stroke?? Is the rod pin the same diameter as the 4.375" stroke (360)? i.e. same rod bearings?
__________________
Bill

RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-30-2019, 11:31 AM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theduff View Post
They have 5 documented crank failures now. One occurred last week with an engine only running 20 degree timing.
Not good out of 200 cranks. It will cost a fortune to take 200 engines apart.
__________________

Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.0 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm


Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-30-2019, 11:37 AM
F1R F1R is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ____
Posts: 829
Default Cast, Forged or Billet machined?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy View Post
Not good out of 200 cranks. It will cost a fortune to take 200 engines apart.
Just curious if the cranks were cast, forged or billet machined creations?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:06 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.