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12-04-2018, 09:05 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AX-O
Although counter intuative, tapping the brakes and keeping the power set works well in that situation.
I had to do that a few times because of lead and wingman prop missmatch (and when the ?power band? kicked in)Someone told me to try it and it was the fix i needed.
I would bring the tail up, keep the fixed pitched prop RPM set and just tap as required. Did not use it often but it was way better than pulling power then being sucked on takeoff.
Good luck.
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It was always drilled into me to never use brakes to maintain position on a formation takeoff. At least in the military power is the solution. It also makes for a smooth transition to the flight phase as you will be evenly matched on power at liftoff. Tapping at high speeds seems like a good way to flat spot tires with limited weight on the main gear.
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12-04-2018, 12:34 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvi767
It was always drilled into me to never use brakes to maintain position on a formation takeoff. At least in the military power is the solution.
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My MIL PCL is INOP in the RV.
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Axel
RV-4 fastback thread and Pics
VAF 2020 paid VAF 704
The information that I post is just that; information and my own personal experiences. You need to weight out the pros and cons and make up your own mind/decisions. The pictures posted may not show the final stage or configuration. Build at your own risk.
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12-04-2018, 02:17 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
Posts: 4,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AX-O
My MIL PCL is INOP in the RV.
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"Too close for missles, switching to guns."
Sorry AC. Couldn't help myself,
"JJ"
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Smart People do Stupid things all the time. I know, I've seen me do'em.
RV6 - Builder/Flying
Bucker Jungmann
Fiat G.46 -(restoration in progress, if I have enough life left in me)
RV1 - Proud Pilot.
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12-04-2018, 02:39 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 179
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Formation Takeoff
You wonder why aircraft insurance is so high. Close call I'd say.
Glad everything worked out.
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Brian Eisner
RV-4 C-GRJT
Bedford Nova Scotia
Canada
Dues paid for 2019
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12-04-2018, 02:48 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hales Corners, WI
Posts: 981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scsmith
Wow, 270 in the back seat of an 8? Or did you mean you were in the back?
I'm at the factory-recommended aft limit with 230 in the back. But my personal limit is 200. It is a different beast with a lot of weight back there.
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I've had 280# in the back seat. Right up against max aft CG. I'm a good sized dude too but the fuel load was low. Threw a case of bottled water in the front baggage area to manage CG and I was right there at max gross as well.
I have just one thing to say about that. Longitudinal stick feedback reversal is real! Be ready for it and the airplane flies fine, albeit pretty touchy!
P.S. I had tested the max gross and aft CG loading during phase 1 so I was familiar with the scenario and knew it would be safe.
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Jesse Bentley
N229Z - RV-8 - Flying - Livin' the dream!
Last edited by Veetail88 : 12-04-2018 at 02:51 PM.
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12-04-2018, 03:46 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 269
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So the way I see it you had a safety of flight issue and in the world of formation flying that is a serious. #2 should NEVER pass lead and even more importunely not lose sight of the other aircraft! Formation flying should ALWAYS start and end with a brief, not the one where you say" ill take lead and you take #2", thats how people get dead! Formation flying done right is not EZ done wrong, well we know how that ends.
I have been flying different forms of formation for over 25 years and in till you hook up with a qualified formation group, (RVs, T-34 Association, T-28 Association Redstars ect), you will not see the big picture. The T-34 Association has a free (FKG) (Formation Knowledge Guide) which you can get free on there web site, its a lot of reading but its the standard that ALL formation pilots follow!
Good luck,
Fly safe!
http://www.flyfast.org/sites/all/docs/FAST_FKG_2.0.pdf
__________________
Adam Silverstein
Technical Counselor Chapter 643
Flying RV-8 10/30/07
PAID 2021
Pittstown, New Jersey
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12-04-2018, 09:20 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: East Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 1
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I believe this formation flight was ill concieved from begining
I believe this formation flight was ill concieved from the start and didn't get better as it proceeded.
There are several reasons this entire flight from briefing if there was a briefing to flight and debriefing if there was one, should not have been flown.
It wasnt skill or planning that prevented a disaster, it was just luck.
Last edited by danschiffer : 12-04-2018 at 09:25 PM.
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12-05-2018, 06:46 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Enon Valley
Posts: 189
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Whos leading
Never pass lead unless part of the maneuver being done, ie, a briefed lead change, etc.
For similar aircraft, the heavier, higher stall, lower performing plane should lead. Much easier/safer to fly down the rwy one foot in the air STAYING in position, than try to t/o below stall speed with the power pulled back. If the difference in performance is that big, or more, of a consideration, then do not do a form t/o.
Tapping the brakes on t/o???? immediately after brake release...maybe. At 50+ kts...STUPID IDEA. Can you say blown tire?
"Okay, lesson learned. Let the lighter aircraft lead! 2 can always ask for power or rejoin after takeoff."
Wrong lesson. As several here have pointed out, Stay in position. Don't pass lead. That is what the throttle is for.
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Dewey Clawson
Super Sabre Society
2012 RV10; 1993 RV6A; 1947 Cessna 140, in progress
2019 dues exempt but paid anyhow
F100, A7D, A10, F16,
Fokker, Boeing, McDonnell-Douglas
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12-05-2018, 10:45 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 128
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AJ
Gusty crosswinds at Pine Mountain KPIM can be tricky with the winds blowing over the tree line, especially in a tailwheel RV.
You did the right thing not trying to salvage your wing takeoff.
Thanks for posting.
__________________
Bob Walden (Waldo), CFII-ASMEL, Commercial Glider
KFFC "Falcon RV Squadron" Peachtree City, GA
RV-7A Tip-Up, IO-390, 700+ Hours
EAA/AOPA/Vans Air Force 2020 Supporter
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12-06-2018, 07:23 PM
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Join Date: May 2018
Location: Peachtree City
Posts: 12
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Thanks for the constructive tips guys. I?m at about 50 hours of RV time. To be clear. The flight was briefed for me to fly on the wing for the takeoff.
I should?ve told lead to push it up (if he had anything left)!
When I?m more comfortable, I?ll be able to take it airborne and stay in position. Getting light in ground effect and taking a couple small skips toward lead was what made me take the safe course of action up and away from the formation.
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Falcon RV Squadron
RV-8
Superior XP360
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