Rusty Pilot Confessions

[DonFromTX]

I appreciate your comments, thanks for sharing.
I have read and reread everything the FAA prints about flight reviews. The problem I seem to have is that in trying to recoup the costs of insurance and training, too often a CFI apparently views a flight review a "test" to pass, and of course some way to encourage buying what he is selling. I have no problem with a reviewer milking it for a few hours of dual, not a bit.
That said, it seems to me that the revenue is just too little to be worth getting involved. When a zero time student wants to get his PPL, the interest immediately jumps from the zero interest flight revue with a fairly high time pilot to a fever pitch with the zero time student wannabe. It may have happened, but I am unaware of a single case when an accident happens, that the FAA immediately grounds the CFI that signed off the FR.

[BobTurner]

Originally Posted by DonFromTX

I appreciate your comments, thanks for sharing.
I have read and reread everything the FAA prints about flight reviews. The problem I seem to have is that in trying to recoup the costs of insurance and training, too often a CFI apparently views a flight review a "test" to pass, and of course some way to encourage buying what he is selling. I have no problem with a reviewer milking it for a few hours of dual, not a bit.
That said, it seems to me that the revenue is just too little to be worth getting involved. When a zero time student wants to get his PPL, the interest immediately jumps from the zero interest flight revue with a fairly high time pilot to a fever pitch with the zero time student wannabe. It may have happened, but I am unaware of a single case when an accident happens, that the FAA immediately grounds the CFI that signed off the FR.

?Recoup the costs of insurance?. I don?t carry cfi insurance, and don?t know anyone who does, because the premium for what?s really needed exceeds my annual instruction income.

?Views a flight review as a test?. The FAA?s instructions to cfi?s for flight reviews are to observe the pilot, and determine if he/she meets the relevant (private, commercial) ACS standard. So yes, it is a test of sorts. How else would you describe it?

?...a reviewer milking it for a few hours of dual?. Don, this is plain offensive.

?Zero time student...interest jumps?. Not for me. I loved student instruction, but no longer do it. Too much risk (see next item).

?Unaware of the faa grounding a cfi after an accident?. It?s not the FAA that drives cfi?s defensive behavior. It?s the fear, following an accident, that the grieving spouse and kids and their lawyer will sue for every penny you have. Even if you win the lawsuit, you?re left with tens of thousands of dollars of legal bills. And yes, this has happened.

[flyinhood]

Sidetrack:

If you DO decide to carry CFI insurance, Avemco or whomever will pay for all the lawyers through out the case. This and being covered for 1-2 million (for the grieving spouse law suite) is the exact reason CFI SHOULD carry insurance.

Now the problem as previously stated. To recover your expenses in carrying insurance you will have to instruct "X" amount more. I'm not sure what Don was paying, but here in Dallas, 50-60 / hr is normal.

If one wants to offer instruction in their RV the costs and thus duel required to break even goes up.

So at the end of the day the instructor is left with:

A) Give flight instruction and pray nothing happens ever and you never see the grieving widow

B) Give instruction confidently knowing your covered for anything that may happen today or in the future, but you will either loose money in the process or need to instruct A LOT to brake even.

This is my opinion as to why there's not much instruction available and more specifically with transition training.

Having never met Don I have no idea what the issue was. I'm guessing the CFI started with a good heart to help with a flight review and after she/he saw how much time it was going to take got cold feet or was scared of litigation. I don't know but I hate to hear stories of anyone with a bad experience in GA.

[RV12JT]

Originally Posted by DonFromTX

For those who wondered how this all worked out, here is an update:
I managed to get in 17.5 hrs of dual with Jetguy, a fine instructor and we got along quite well. The problem is, he is an airline pilot and does this in his off time, between that, my schedule and weather, after four months of working at it, I had 17.5 hours of dual and no flight review - because he said I was not ready! That stung, heck I soloed in only 7 hours the first time! Then I noticed in an FAA publication that one needs one hour of dual for each year of not flying. It has been 24 years, so I felt better.
It was going to be difficult to get more dual with him for some months because of schedule conflicts. There is no RV12 training available down here period. I considered selling the plane, but with an AW and 40 hours to fly off in Phase 1, that probably would not fly (pun intended). Decided that parting it out would be the only solution and started that path, but just could not do it, decided I would rather just let it sit and rot away.
Then came an excellent thought: Buy an RV12 and get a local instructor to finish me out! I could sell it when i was done, and could fly it until I felt good about flying my build! Yesterdau I done just that, bought N756TS, a completed RV12 (less paint). As we speak, Bob Bogash is making plans to fly it down to me so I can resume training. What a maze to navigate just to fly my plane!

Wow Don, seems like a bit much to get back in the saddle. After a seven year hiatus, I found an AOPA rust pilot course, then got a BFR and rented a Warrior to keep current while I looked for my next plane. BFR was 2 flights about an hour each. Both the CFI and I felt comfortable, No need for 5 or 6 more hours.

Fast forward, I wanted a -12iS, but VAN?s wasn?t able to deliver a year ago, still working on pricing and production issues with the -12iS, so I ordered a factory built Sling. Insurance only wanted 15 landings and were happy with the 5 hours I got in transition training. The Sling, IMO flys and handles just like a -12. Truly amazing aircraft.

With your experience I would think you would be good to go with less than 17 hours, but in the end, you are the best judge of you capabilities. Some aren?t as astute. Good Luck and glad to hear you didn?t part out your -12. I wish I had the time to build, if I did, I?d prolly be working on the -12iS.

[DonFromTX]

First off to those that took offense, that was never intended. I actually admire any CFI, training someone to fly is a noble calling, one I could never do. Having been a pilot for 50 years I have had my share of BFR and FR, I don't dislike them either, in fact always looked forward to them as a chance to show off my skills.
My insurance only required 1 hour of instruction, it was I that wanted and took 17 hours, after all I was rusty and was about to be a test pilot. It was that CFI that claimed he was going to give me a BFR, was dishonest because his LODA did not allow him to even do that MY mistake for not determining that early on.
I think I have an inkling of how Bob Hoover and ageing commercial pilots have felt.

[krw5927]

I'm not sure I understand what a LODA has to do with a CFI giving you instruction in an aircraft you (not he) owns? You're not renting his aircraft, so why is a LODA relevant at all?

[DonFromTX]

A LODA is a Letter of Deviation Authority granted by the FAA for an Experimental Aircraft owner to give flight instruction in his aircraft. I did not realize that the LODA does NOT allow the use of the aircraft for a BFR since the LODA holder stated he could do a BFR.! That in itself seems to be the height of silliness if you think about it. The CFI can give me 17+ hours of instruction but cannot use any of that instruction for a flight review! I can think of absolutely no reason for this other than to make it impossible for a guy like me to keep flying. It did serve that purpose well. I could not take a FR in my own aircraft, since I have to fly it 40 hours ALONE first. Catch 22 for sure.

instruction

Originally Posted by krw5927

I'm not sure I understand what a LODA has to do with a CFI giving you instruction in an aircraft you (not he) owns? You're not renting his aircraft, so why is a LODA relevant at all?

[flyinhood]

Don,

Why not go our and receive a flight review from a general flight school in a C-150 or whatever. After that, you could fly off your phase 1 and use what you have learned from the 17 hours in the same type?

respectfully

[DonFromTX]

You are absolutely correct, I was not careful with my use of words. The deception was very good for him, lots of riding around making $180 per hour watching the scenery fly by.

Originally Posted by RV8JD

Don, It appears that the LODA your CFI had allowed him to do Transition Training in his aircraft, not general flight instruction and thus no FRs. This is typical for LODAs granted for Transition Training, if I'm not mistaken.

Obviously, if he promised you an FR, something that he could not give you in that circumstance, that wasn't good.

[DonFromTX]

I am flying on my drivers license, cannot fly a C150.

Originally Posted by flyinhood

Don,

Why not go our and receive a flight review from a general flight school in a C-150 or whatever. After that, you could fly off your phase 1 and use what you have learned from the 17 hours in the same type?

respectfully