RVs to Oshkosh

[morganjp]

Paul says start a new thread so here it is!

A. Rv s have no business flying the Fisk arrival with all the slow airplanes because there are way too many of us going to Oshkosh now and we do not blend well with this traffic no matter how great our flying skills are.

B. The high Fisk arrival is dangerous and should be abandoned altogether.

C. The slow traffic and faster traffic need different approaches to different runways while still allowing all the departures to take place at the same time.

So how do we do this.

Here is what i think so feel free to shoot holes in this one and come up with your own.

1. Use the taxiway north of 9-27 as a runway the same way the taxiway east of 18-36 is being utilized now.

The grass south of 9-27 is already used as a taxiway. Getting to Basler and the stuff on the north side will be a problem but maybe they can use 5-23 or some other way to get there.

2. Have everything flying LSA speeds and those that just insist on flying the Fisk approach keep using it.

3.Have anyone capable of the Warbird arrival speed ( like us except for the 12 drivers) fly that arrival.

So the arrivals are as follows

Runway 27
We use the Warbird arrival from Lake Winnebago to 27 Left
Slow guys use Fisk RR arrival right downwind to 27 Right

Runway 9
We use the Warbird left downwind to 9 left
Slow guys come straight in to 9 right off the RR tracks

Runway 36

We use the Warbird arrival from the south to 36 right
Slow guys use the Fisk Avenue arrival to 36 left

Runway 18

We Use the high approach like we are going to runway 9 except turn left base and fly south over 27 to 18 Right

Slow guys use Fisk avenue to a left downwind to 18 left.

Ok my brain is officially tired so that?s it. Somebody else come up with something better.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

[Bruce]

John,
I like 90% of it.

RWY 9 taxiway is straight on airport diagram but it would need a lot of work
After looking at it on google maps. It has a good turn in it.

Controllers in a boat at warbird island pushing to both runways on calm day??

[Capflyer]

I camp on the North side of 9/27 every year. It would be difficult to use that as a runway. You have multiple locations all along that taxiway such as the Weeks hangars, terminal, and Basler. It is used quite a bit and at busy times gets backed up with large planes that cannot taxi on the grass, all sizes of jets, show planes, warbirds, etc. Trying to get them all to cross over 9/27 from another runway would create more of a mess than already exists. Not only that but it is adjacent to all of the camping, litterally steps away, from all of the camping on the North side so the FAA might have an issue with the proximity or EAA could take away a couple thousand camping spots. The North 40 might seem like no mans land to those that never venture North of the Warbirds area but I can assure you it is very busy up there.

[mciaglia]

I must graciously disagree with the OP point A. RV?s although a huge biggest component of the experimental aircraft do not represent the majority of aircraft at Oshkosh. From Cubs, certified, aerobatic, vintage there is such a mix of aircraft. 90knts is almost double the published stall speed of many of the RV aircraft. That is certainly a doable speed to fly and if a pilots skills aren?t up to that then a good self assessment of skill is in order. Try slowing down a high performance biplane, that I can?t see jack out the front to 90kts and fly the approach. I have several times after practicing and planning my arrival time.

Maybe as RV pilots we can pave the way by demonstrating precise adherence to the arrival.

I wonder why 90kts was determined to speed?

Or get a mass arrival organized like the beech pilots do.

[jbDC9]

Originally Posted by morganjp

A. Rv s have no business flying the Fisk arrival with all the slow airplanes because there are way too many of us going to Oshkosh now and we do not blend well with this traffic no matter how great our flying skills are.

Disagree. RVs are just fine doing this arrival at 90 kts. Or even down to 70 for a bit if there's some compression going on... it happens.

[MercFE]

My 9A flies great at 90 knts...

[Kyle Boatright]

Originally Posted by mciaglia

I wonder why 90kts was determined to speed?

Or get a mass arrival organized like the beech pilots do.

The 90 knots is a good compromise that fits everything from an Ercoupe or C-150 to a Comanche.

EAA is actively working on a solution ( a grass strip on the SW side of the field) for the truly low and slow crowd. Supposedly, it will take a little time to make that happen. I assume it will lead to a different arrival.

And speaking of arrivals- I am really skeptical of mass arrivals because of the mess I seem to see when they reach the parking areas.

[morganjp]

Paul
A little help here would be appreciated.
These people seem to think that after 1200 hours of RV time that I can?t fly it at 90 knots.

It?s not my skills that I am concerned with, it the guy in front in the cub going 90, 75, 80, 65 100 feet high 300 ft low wandering left wandering right.
And the other guy breaking into the line from my left or right.

The purpose of the thread is to come up with a better solution to space traffic arriving at Oshkosh not to debate who is the next Bob Hoover!

So let?s go back to the original question of what ideas do we have to make the Oshkosh arrival safer and stick to that.

Thanks in advance for your well thought out ideas.

[dtw_rv6]

I can fly all day long at 65kts.

[KatanaPilot]

Originally Posted by dtw_rv6

I can fly all day long at 65kts.

Yes, but how much manuever margin do you have at 65 knots when someone cuts you off?

I?m with John. I want additional energy to be able to aggressively manuever and get out of dodge when someone lacking adequate skills does something stupid.

I don?t have a lot of RV time, but almost 20k incident and accident free hours Part 91, 121 and military - so while I?m always learning and hope to continue to do so - the 90 knot arrival isn?t the best for me and my RV7.