Gas, Cans, & Bonding

[funflying]

My practice is the same as Tom. I have a local station offering 91 octane ethanol free so I have portable tanks totaling 37 gallons and I use this supply as quickly as possible but if I have some left after six weeks the remainder goes in the car.

I do use Mr. funnel when transferring fuel to the Flo-Fast 7 gal tank I use to pump the gas into the plane. The pump system also has a fine screen filter at the end of the pick up tube. My last check of the gascolator did have some debris on the screen despite my filtering efforts, but this is why I check at least annually.

[tomkk]

If you go with Flo-Fast, I'd definitely recommend the Professional model instead of the Premium model. I started with the Premium and kept getting leaks around the handle shaft. The Pro model is more robust. It has a three vane pump - pumps a bit faster than the Premium - 10 rotations/gallon. No leaks yet.

[Piper J3]

As long as we're talking about transferring fuel... I use these eBay EZ-Pour Hi-Flo spouts on a 5-gallon Briggs & Stratton plastic fuel can.

Pretty much like an Indianapolis pit stop... never timed it, but I guess can empties in 30 sec.

[DaleB]

We run 91 ethanol-free, because it's available close to the airport. We have a total of 5, 5-gallon plastic gasoline cans we use to transport from the gas station. Since I've had no trouble using plastic gas cans for everything else over the past 30 years or so, I'm not particularly concerned about static arcing during fueling. Use common sense, touch the plane and can before fueling, etc.

We've run 91 ethanol-free, 92 E10, 100LL, and Swift 94UL. No detectable change in starting, running or performance with any of them. We typically avoid E10, just because we can and the straight gas won't absorb water as readily... or so we're told. 100LL is the last resort, or we'll pour in a couple gallons of the plane has been sitting for more than a couple of weeks with mogas in it.

I have a large Mr. Funnel at the hangar. If we have any uncertainty at all about the fuel age or quality, or just for the heck of it once in a while, we'll use that to transfer a full can to a known clean empty one. On rare occasions we'll use it while fueling the plane, but generally not due to the angle of the filler. I also use it any time we drain the tank. We've never found water in the gas, and rarely any other debris. The only thing I've found in the gascolator in the past 3 years of annual inspections was what appeared to be a single cottonwood seed last time. Don't know where that entered the fuel system, but some times of the year here the cottonwood seeds fall like snow here.

[Boyd Birchler]

Used Walmart 93 octane premium for hundreds of hours with the Rotas 912S 100HP engine. At 1200 hours pulled the gear box for R&R and it had no Lead paste what so ever. Also never found any lead paste or sludge in the oil tank under the baffle. 100LL is the least acceptable approved fuel. Premium auto with no alcohol is the best but even with alcohol it is good if the aircraft's fuel system and hoses are alcohol safe.

[RFSchaller]

Nice rig, Sam!

[Jimbo54]

Thanks to all of you for your counsel... much appreciated. I suppose a person could worry this stuff to death, just trying to be careful.

I also found this a bit troubling: "A 'premium' fuel will see its octane rating reduced to unusable levels after as little as three weeks." And later... "To be avoided: 'Premium' fuel which is more than 3 weeks old." Source: http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed4.htm

If accurate, with a planned fuel burn of 5.6 gph and 20 gallons, a person needs to be flying a bit more than 3.5 hours every three weeks to avoid inviting pre-ignition and detonation. I guess the alternative is to drain fuel and use it in your car.

I'm beginning to wonder if I read too much.

[Sam Buchanan]

Originally Posted by Jimbo54

Thanks to all of you for your counsel... much appreciated. I suppose a person could worry this stuff to death, just trying to be careful.

I also found this a bit troubling: "A 'premium' fuel will see its octane rating reduced to unusable levels after as little as three weeks." And later... "To be avoided: 'Premium' fuel which is more than 3 weeks old." Source: http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed4.htm

If accurate, with a planned fuel burn of 5.6 gph and 20 gallons, a person needs to be flying a bit more than 3.5 hours every three weeks to avoid inviting pre-ignition and detonation. I guess the alternative is to drain fuel and use it in your car.

I'm beginning to wonder if I read too much.

Don't fill the tank to the top...only add whatever fuel you anticipate using in three weeks....or add fuel for just the next flight. What am I missing here??

[jwyatt]

Originally Posted by tomkk

If you go with Flo-Fast, I'd definitely recommend the Professional model instead of the Premium model. I started with the Premium and kept getting leaks around the handle shaft. The Pro model is more robust. It has a three vane pump - pumps a bit faster than the Premium - 10 rotations/gallon. No leaks yet.

How long does it take to turn those 10 rotations and pump the gallon? I picked up a few 10 gal FloFast jugs on sale, now trying to decide between the hand pump or a DC pump rig on a cart.

[rv7charlie]

Originally Posted by Jimbo54

Thanks to all of you for your counsel... much appreciated. I suppose a person could worry this stuff to death, just trying to be careful.

I also found this a bit troubling: "A 'premium' fuel will see its octane rating reduced to unusable levels after as little as three weeks." And later... "To be avoided: 'Premium' fuel which is more than 3 weeks old." Source: http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed4.htm

If accurate, with a planned fuel burn of 5.6 gph and 20 gallons, a person needs to be flying a bit more than 3.5 hours every three weeks to avoid inviting pre-ignition and detonation. I guess the alternative is to drain fuel and use it in your car.

I'm beginning to wonder if I read too much.

I'm sure that Rotax has good reason to be that conservative in their recommendation. However, I can say from experience that E-free premium mogas works well in a 160 hp (higher, 8.5-1 compression) Lyc when it's a lot older than that. The biggest downside I've seen is that if fuel sits in the carb's fuel bowl (small volume, high surface area) for more than a few weeks, the engine will be very hard to start. Since auto fuel has 'aeromatics' (?) that enhance starting ability, my totally unqualified opinion is that those components flash off a lot more quickly than the rest of the chemicals in the gas. My experience in a situation where I haven't flown for several weeks is that a half hour or so before next flight, I can exercise the throttle repeatedly, using the accelerator pump to mostly clear the bowl. I then use the boost pump to re-fill the bowl. The engine has always started quickly since I began using this method.

More when I'm awake.

Charlie