Ever been bitten by a "Sleep Test" ?

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by az_gila

Yes, it is different from engineering and I guess that is why the university buildings are "Medical Arts" rather than "Medical Science"

However, I would question the validity of any test in a strange environment to measure "normal sleep". This is simply part of the science and techniques of measurement.

Two other previous comments mention this major testing issue.

My late father was a structural engineer, and avid flyer, and this was a big source of anxiety and frustration with him when he was told he needed a sleep study. He made me pull the lit on them, and try to "sell" it. Bottom Line: You need only a few NREM/REM sleep cycles for them to get enough data (minutes not hours) Edit: The data recorded is typically not under conscious control. He was also skinny, so couldn't be OSA right?! He didn't go.

Died at 63, heart disease. Correlation is NOT causation, of course. Maybe it would have made no difference. Point is, you only get one life. Have these conversations with your Doctor, and if you believe he/she is only in it for the money find another one.

[JimS]

For about 8 years. Not a good scenario in my case. Had my 2nd class pulled about a year ago. Letters of appeal to Oklahoma would take 6-8 weeks to get a response of another denial without any info of what they needed to move forward. Finally was able to sit down with an FAA doc on opening day at Airventure and present some of my info. He looked at it for about 3 minutes and told me I can give you your medical right now. You can fly a plane home if you want. Why does it have to be so hard to work with Oklahoma???

Also, the FAA puts out a publication called Safety Briefing. I sent an email asking them to publish data showing how much safer the American public is since the big sleep apnea push by the FAA. Their latest issue had an article talking about sleep apnea. They stated in the last 15 years there have been 9 incidents/accidents attributed to sleep apnea. 4 were in other transportation modes other than flying. (Their numbers) That leaves 1 every 3 years for aviation. The FAA could surely expend their safety focus on other matters.

I totally agree that some people need treatment and have met many that benefit from cpap. Just know it's easy to be pulled into the whole special issuance medical ordeal by just uttering the wrong phrase or having the phrase "daytime drowsiness" automatically and erroneously added to your physicians report.

My bad. The wording is the NTSB has found OSA to be a contributing factor in 9 accidents since 2001 in 4 transportation modes.

[az_gila]

Originally Posted by JimS

...

Also, the FAA puts out a publication called Safety Briefing. I sent an email asking them to publish data showing how much safer the American public is since the big sleep apnea push by the FAA. Their latest issue had an article talking about sleep apnea. They stated in the last 15 years there have been 9 incidents/accidents attributed to sleep apnea. 4 were in other transportation modes other than flying. (Their numbers) That leaves 1 every 3 years for aviation. The FAA could surely expend their safety focus on other matters.

I totally agree that some people need treatment and have met many that benefit from cpap. Just know it's easy to be pulled into the whole special issuance medical ordeal by just uttering the wrong phrase or having the phrase "daytime drowsiness" automatically and erroneously added to your physicians report.

This may be the data the FAA mentioned... three years old so maybe another aviation incident, not accident, got added.

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/speeches/C...art_150211.pdf

The mentioned one was for Class I medicals I believe.

[woxofswa]

A PSG is just a combination of an EKG and an EEG for much longer duration.
OSA is the most common diagnosis but there are over 200 diagnosis codes related to PSG’s and a lot more uses for PSG’s than just sleep. A lot of studies are done on children who were about to be diagnosed and medically treated for ADD when they actually have a sleep issue. A lot of cardiac and bariatric surgeons use them prior to surgery just to get an expanded picture of the health of their patients.

In 8 years of my affiliation we saw dozens of pilots and the only one to lose his medical long term was for a previously undetected heart problem that was a ticking bomb requiring immediate surgery.

BTW, I’m not a doctor, but trying out a CPAP machine on your own is a huge mistake. People asked us for that option a lot and there is a reason that it is against the law. It is a pump of adjustable pressure designed to keep the airway from collapsing. Everybody’s needs are unique. A titration is the way to get the pump to the correct setting as too little pressure and too much are either ineffectual or dangerous. It could be akin to stabbing a magneto without timing it and hoping you got it right or hanging a 14v alternator on a 24v ship.

I fly for a living as well as an avocation. Every visit I tell my AME that I live to fly but would rather live than fly.

[woxofswa]

One final thought in passing. In most states you can walk into a sleep center, negotiate a cash price for a PSG and interpretation, (probably $1000-2000), and have an anonymous sleep study with no paper trail. I am neither recommending nor encouraging that, just saying that it happens. (Often with professional athletes).
Nevertheless, it is against federal law to submit an FAA medical application will known erroneous answers so never do that.

[RV7A Flyer]

Originally Posted by Icarus

You pay them to keep you well, why buck their advice? In any case, I wish you well.

Because not all of them are good? I've run into a couple of quacks, one of whom had I followed his advice would have resulted in a permanently "frozen" and immobile wrist joint after a break (it required extensive surgery by a hand surgeon).

I'd say...move on. You're asympomatic now, have a good probable cause of the wheezing/whatever, and if it comes back, deal with it then. That's what I'd do in this case, based on what you wrote, but YMMV...

ETA: Oh, and go the Basic Med route to keep the FAA's nose out of your personal medical history. Just make sure your anus is in good shape, as that's on the Basic Med checklist for the doc

[cdeerinck]

I like to think I am normally a good communicator (don't we all), but I think perhaps I did a bad job with this post, and with my new doctor.

To clear up a few points:

* I am confident that I do not have sleep apnea. I don't have any trouble sleeping, and when I wake up, I feel refreshed and generally great.

* About 3-4 weeks ago, when I started swimming, I got some type of lung infection, or walking pneumonia. Maybe from swimming in the then 81 degree San Diego ocean water. Only while that was going on did I have 2 or 3 instances of getting very tired. It never happened before, nor has it happened since the problem went away. I strongly feel it was due to the problem that was in my lungs, and not an inherent problem in my physiology.

* I have never had asthma either, but the doc prescribed an inhaler. On the label it says "Take 2 puffs every 4 to 6 hours as needed". The "problem" is that it has never been needed, so it just sits there unused. The "shortness of breath" that I described to the doctor only occurred while I had the lung issue. Even though I told her that, she prescribed it anyway.

* I have many concerns about the doctor's recommendations because they all seemed like she was missing the point of what I was trying to communicate. This never happened with my old doctor. So independent of my concern here, I think I need to source a new doctor anyway. She is an ex-military doctor, but not a flight-line doctor, and made a few comments that I didn't really appreciate. One was "since your a pilot, you will tell me everything is fine, even when it isn't". When I asked her if she could do a Class III or Basic Med, she had no idea what was required, and suggested that I "go to a place that does occupational medicals, because they do that kind of thing".

Several of you have described exactly what I was concerned about, that being stuck in bureaucratic ****. It is bad enough to have to go through that, but having to do that because I picked a bad doctor would be insane.

So while I appreciate people telling me not to ignore my symptoms (which I generally agree with wholeheartedly), please understand that I don't have any!

While I was going through the 3-4 weeks with this problem, I grounded my self because I believe in the "IM SAFE" mentality.

The reply from RV7A Flyer hit the closest to home for me. He appears to have heard exactly what I tried to say, and summed up exactly what I plan on doing now. I too have had some bad doctors in my past. I separated a shoulder once, so they gave me a sling, and told me not to move my shoulder or elbow. After they said I was done with the sling, I couldn't move my elbow through its full range of motion. They then did an elbow x-ray and noticed that I had fractured my elbow at the same time, and told me that I should never have kept my arm in a sling... grrrrr.....

I truly appreciate the feedback all of you gave me. So thank you again!

[Cayugarandy]

A lot of people complain about doctors,and I?ve come to realize the fact that every other one of them is below average!And they graduated in the bottom half of their class!They can?t all be the best and brightest.Also applies to pilots,and builders,so since I?m above average,maybe you?re not!

[Tomcat RV4]

Definitely blood work up, chest x Ray, but do NOT do sleep study unless one of
Prior tests show need.I am not Dr., but allowed sleep study and found it was a money pit ! If your swimming the way indicated, you are in better shape than a
big % of population !

[Robert Anglin]

Originally Posted by cdeerinck

I like to think I am normally a good communicator (don't we all), but I think perhaps I did a bad job with this post, and with my new doctor.

To clear up a few points:

* I am confident that I do not have sleep apnea. I don't have any trouble sleeping, and when I wake up, I feel refreshed and generally great.

* About 3-4 weeks ago, when I started swimming, I got some type of lung infection, or walking pneumonia. Maybe from swimming in the then 81 degree San Diego ocean water. Only while that was going on did I have 2 or 3 instances of getting very tired. It never happened before, nor has it happened since the problem went away. I strongly feel it was due to the problem that was in my lungs, and not an inherent problem in my physiology.

* I have never had asthma either, but the doc prescribed an inhaler. On the label it says "Take 2 puffs every 4 to 6 hours as needed". The "problem" is that it has never been needed, so it just sits there unused. The "shortness of breath" that I described to the doctor only occurred while I had the lung issue. Even though I told her that, she prescribed it anyway.

* I have many concerns about the doctor's recommendations because they all seemed like she was missing the point of what I was trying to communicate. This never happened with my old doctor. So independent of my concern here, I think I need to source a new doctor anyway. She is an ex-military doctor, but not a flight-line doctor, and made a few comments that I didn't really appreciate. One was "since your a pilot, you will tell me everything is fine, even when it isn't". When I asked her if she could do a Class III or Basic Med, she had no idea what was required, and suggested that I "go to a place that does occupational medicals, because they do that kind of thing".

Several of you have described exactly what I was concerned about, that being stuck in bureaucratic ****. It is bad enough to have to go through that, but having to do that because I picked a bad doctor would be insane.

So while I appreciate people telling me not to ignore my symptoms (which I generally agree with wholeheartedly), please understand that I don't have any!

While I was going through the 3-4 weeks with this problem, I grounded my self because I believe in the "IM SAFE" mentality.

The reply from RV7A Flyer hit the closest to home for me. He appears to have heard exactly what I tried to say, and summed up exactly what I plan on doing now. I too have had some bad doctors in my past. I separated a shoulder once, so they gave me a sling, and told me not to move my shoulder or elbow. After they said I was done with the sling, I couldn't move my elbow through its full range of motion. They then did an elbow x-ray and noticed that I had fractured my elbow at the same time, and told me that I should never have kept my arm in a sling... grrrrr.....

I truly appreciate the feedback all of you gave me. So thank you again!

After reading all this. I would think that what you need is a change of you P.C.P., one you can talk to and work with, one that can listen to you and understand your needs as well as you safety. The F.A.A. has their teams from most of their branches come to KOSH each year and set-up shop in the F.A.A. Safety building next to the tower. One of the biggest teams there is their medical division. You may wish to hold off if you can tell you can sit and talk to some of them. They are most helpful and are glad to tell you off the record why they do the things that they do and require. Oklahoma city is a different world, and what they try to do is fallow a script that is set down in writing as to what they are supposed to do. I have found that the folks that work there don't like to stick their necks out even a little. I have been informed that many of the issues that the medical branch works with are known to be flowed and that they are being address, but as with many government agency it seams to take forever. As this happens only once a year you can contact you reginal flight surgeon's office and get some information off the record from them. There are I think seven regions here in the U.S.. Just a few thoughts on this and by the way a chest X-ray wont cover it, a C.T. will be the way to go I.M.H.O. Yours, R.E.A. III # 80888