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09-16-2018, 11:20 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Posts: 406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdeerinck
But one thing really concerned me, and that was that if the sleep test somehow showed anything like sleep apnea (which I have never suffered from), that this could somehow make its way into my medical records, and possibly interfere with getting a Class III medical, which I have due in a few months.
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Since no one else has mentioned it yet - Unless you are flying internationally, if you are only worried about renewing your 3rd Class medical you can always switch to Basic Med. Then you can get the recommended tests if you wish (I'm not qualified to suggest either way), and no matter what the results you can still fly with Basic Med so long as you can get a physician to sign off on the simple Basic Med medical.
Best of luck with what ever you decide.
__________________
Dave Macdonald
RV-10 First Flight April 1, 2020.  Currently in Phase 1
2020 VAF Dues Paid
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09-16-2018, 11:31 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 2,189
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And...
Some of us ARE professionals...
Next time you go to your AME, ask to see the sleep apnea "checklist". The very first item is , you guessed it, BMI.
I challenge anyone to make a case that BMI is a valid indicator of health. It accounts for NOTHING but height and weight. Don't believe me? here is the formula:
BMI= weight (kg) / height (m)^2
It says NOTHING about bone density, muscle mass, fat percentage, heart rate, blood pressure, etc. Refer to the previously detailed example.
Pure and simple, it is a "one size fits all" height weight chart...
Unfortunately, "one size" DOES NOT fit all...
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88
RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
EFII System 32 - Done
297 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...
Dues+ Paid 2019,...Thanks DR+
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09-16-2018, 11:36 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,119
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BMI ha ha
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988
Some of us ARE professionals...
Next time you go to your AME, ask to see the sleep apnea "checklist". The very first item is , you guessed it, BMI.
I challenge anyone to make a case that BMI is a valid indicator of health. It accounts for NOTHING but height and weight. Don't believe me? here is the formula:
BMI= weight (kg) / height (m)^2
It says NOTHING about bone density, muscle mass, fat percentage, heart rate, blood pressure, etc. Refer to the previously detailed example.
Pure and simple, it is a "one size fits all" height weight chart...
Unfortunately, "one size" DOES NOT fit all...
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I have been doing construction my whole life. If I every meet my BMI Take me to the hospital because I am sick. Terrible measure of health, better is if you can run a 5 k without walking.
__________________
John S
WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.
Dues paid 2020, worth every penny
RV9A- Status:
Tail 98% done
Wings 98% done
Fuselage Kit 98% done
Finishing Kit 35% canopy done for now
Electrical 5% in work
Firewall Forward 5% in work
www.pilotjohnsrv9.blogspot.com
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09-16-2018, 11:42 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: D.C.
Posts: 303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila
As an engineer I would read the medical report as far less than "solid science"
If BMI is a risk factor, lowering should be more effective...
I don't remember it being linked to accidents involving pilots with Class III medicals.
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We're not allowed to test materials (humans) until they fail, as you engineers can. It's just not how medical science works. I won't debate you on a 5 year old lit review, fact is the ACP (the publisher) still recommends sleep studies for exactly what the OP described. Thankfully if you don't like it, if you check back in a year the guidance may change, another difference from engineering I would expect.
Eliminating/reversing a risk factor for a pathology does not equal treatment as you imply. Wouldn't that be great though! Think smoking and lung disease.
I don't care what the FAA thinks. Really. I hate to hear about pilots avoiding therapeutic interaction with their HCPs out of fear of the dreaded medical loss. It's scary, I understand. But ignoring a problem that can be remedied / mitigated seems taboo on our airplanes, but all too often A-OK with our bodies. Go get seen, question results, and THEN make your informed decision. Just don't avoid all-together.
__________________
Paul M.
Fayetteville, NC
Airport Bum
RV-4 / PA28-180
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09-16-2018, 11:44 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 2,189
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yep
Once you go and get seen, it's too late as you then must indicate it on your medical...
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88
RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
EFII System 32 - Done
297 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...
Dues+ Paid 2019,...Thanks DR+
Last edited by rocketman1988 : 09-16-2018 at 11:47 AM.
Reason: content
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09-16-2018, 11:50 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Defiance, MO
Posts: 1,674
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Your doctor is your consultant on your personal health care. You are your own primary care provider. It is your decision on doing the test. Since you are questioning your doctor, maybe you have some personal insight that maybe you should do the test and are reaching out to the masses that are more than likely going to try and talk you out of it.
You decide and don’t let anybody besides you make the decision.
But since you ask, my opinion is sleep apnea just one of many new found, never an issue before, medical conditions. I am sure there is science being thrown around to validate claims. And remember the medical industry’s primary purpose is to return on investment for their stakeholders.
__________________
Philip
RV-6A - 14+ years, 950+ hours
Based at 1H0 (Creve Coeur)
Paid dues yearly since 2007
Last edited by plehrke : 09-16-2018 at 11:58 AM.
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09-16-2018, 11:55 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Defiance, MO
Posts: 1,674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila
Not me... a wiki pic.
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I can?t sleep good just wearing the T-shirt.
__________________
Philip
RV-6A - 14+ years, 950+ hours
Based at 1H0 (Creve Coeur)
Paid dues yearly since 2007
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09-16-2018, 12:00 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Jamestown,NY
Posts: 631
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My wife says I snore and stop breathing for a while at a time while sleeping. I had a sleep study and couldn't sleep during it. At about 4 in the morning I asked to leave because I was wide awake. They told me I couldn't because I was being charged for it so I might as well stay the whole time. I finally fell asleep for maybe less than an hour. I personally didn't think that was enough time to classify me as having apnea but they did.
I'm 6'1 and 195 lbs so not overweight. I can drive for over 8 hours without falling sleep. I really don't believe the faa issue with apnea is realistic. Not many pilots are flying for 6 or 8 hours without stopping. If you're flying for 2 hours and falling asleep then yeah you might have an issue.
I'm with the guy who said just buy a machine and see if it helps if you're having an issue. They try to tell you that only the doctor can adjust your machine but that's not true.
Good luck. If you take the test just be prepared to be wearing a mask every night.
__________________
9A in progress
Working on Finish kit!!
Mattituck TMXIO-360 red gold
Dues paid Jan 2020
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09-16-2018, 12:07 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: D.C.
Posts: 303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988
Some of us ARE professionals...
I challenge anyone to make a case that BMI is a valid indicator of health.
BMI= weight (kg) / height (m)^2
It says NOTHING about bone density, muscle mass, fat percentage, heart rate, blood pressure, etc. Refer to the previously detailed example.
Pure and simple, it is a "one size fits all" height weight chart...
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It is a predictor of future health, and well established risk factor for most bad things. Agree with all else quoted.
The only single piece of data used in isolation of all others to describe health, is an existing pulse.
He is already required to list the reason for the visit he had, the HCP name and date...the cat is already out of the bag.
__________________
Paul M.
Fayetteville, NC
Airport Bum
RV-4 / PA28-180
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09-16-2018, 12:13 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus
We're not allowed to test materials (humans) until they fail, as you engineers can. It's just not how medical science works. I won't debate you on a 5 year old lit review, fact is the ACP (the publisher) still recommends sleep studies for exactly what the OP described. Thankfully if you don't like it, if you check back in a year the guidance may change, another difference from engineering I would expect.
Eliminating/reversing a risk factor for a pathology does not equal treatment as you imply. Wouldn't that be great though! Think smoking and lung disease.
I don't care what the FAA thinks. Really. I hate to hear about pilots avoiding therapeutic interaction with their HCPs out of fear of the dreaded medical loss. It's scary, I understand. But ignoring a problem that can be remedied / mitigated seems taboo on our airplanes, but all too often A-OK with our bodies. Go get seen, question results, and THEN make your informed decision. Just don't avoid all-together.
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Yes, it is different from engineering and I guess that is why the university buildings are "Medical Arts" rather than "Medical Science"
However, I would question the validity of any test in a strange environment to measure "normal sleep". This is simply part of the science and techniques of measurement.
Unfortunately it appears there is somewhat of a $$$ element in it - someone has to keep those sleep centers and equipment makers in business.
Two other previous comments mention this major testing issue.
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
Last edited by az_gila : 09-16-2018 at 12:17 PM.
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