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08-31-2018, 10:53 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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Could save yourself some time and effort and pick up this one:
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=163710
I can vouch (as a passenger) that it lives up to it's name. Built by a multiple-offender, his 7th or 8th RV, if I recall.
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Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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08-31-2018, 11:05 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Reedley, California
Posts: 85
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I have built and flown both a Harmon Rocket II and a RV-8A. The Harmon Rocket was a wonderful flying machine, honest handling characteristics, relatively easy to land, good builders support from John, etc. With a worn out, stock C4B5- IO-540 it would cruise at 200KTS all day long. My RV-8A with a mildly massaged new IO-360, cruises in the 175-180 kt range under similar circumstances. The Rocket does have more leg room in the back seat. Why did I sell the rocket and build a -8A? Several reasons, first was that at 130 TT piloting, I found landing with two persons a little nerve wracking for my skill level, one person- piece of cake. Second, and more importantly, my Rockets used engine was ****, and I was going to have to spend big bucks for a rebuild in order to feel comfortable. Third issue was hull insurance. The Rocket was three times my -8A insurance. Forth reason was lack of headroom, my head would hit the canopy in bumpy conditions (I'm six feet tall with a long trunk.) And finally, the RV-8A has double wall floor construction from the wing spar forward to the firewall. The Rocket has one skin between one's feet and the ground- so to speak. So for all those reasons I decided to build a tricycle geared aircraft, so easy to land, and was able to include modern avionics and auto pilot (greatest thing since sliced bread).
Last edited by dwrichey : 08-31-2018 at 11:27 AM.
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08-31-2018, 11:31 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stroh21
...For the Rocket owners out there, how much faster is it? Trying to decide if loosing the extra baggage space is worth the speed...
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I have both in my hangar, and "I" can hardly bring myself to fly the -8 when the Rocket is airworthy... The little guy just sits in the corner.
That said, you need to sit in a Rocket to see if the cockpit works for you. I strongly prefer the comfort of the Rocket to the -8, but that doesn't mean everyone will.
The baggage space issue is manageable. I have done plenty of maxed out cross country flying in both and I really appreciate the loading options of the -8, but if you are building, the rear space in the Rocket can be cavernous. As for CG, with my wife in back I can still pack over 100 pounds in there and remain in CG and GW. That's a lot of stuff!
As for performance, you only have to read the PIREPS. There's just no comparison. 35-40 KTAS faster at the same or better MPG, double the rate of climb.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
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Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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08-31-2018, 11:50 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Clovis, NM
Posts: 139
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Yeah, I need to find one to sit in. I'm 6'2", but pretty comfortable in tight spaces.
Seems like the F-1 has their kits available again. I sent them a message to get more details.
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Matt
RV-8A Owner
Last edited by Stroh21 : 08-31-2018 at 12:01 PM.
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08-31-2018, 02:01 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Taylor Texas
Posts: 813
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What could possibly go wrong??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stroh21
Mike S,
I thought about the Super 8, but it seems like the Rocket/F-1 is faster? If I'm going to take the time to build one, I want it to be significantly faster than the 8A I have now.
Mark (F1Boss),
I just looked up Taylor, TX. I may need to fly down from Clovis, NM and visit! It is only about a 2.5 hour flight. 
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I?m headed to Reno next week (some sort of speed event there - I get to be Ramp Boss for the Sport Class) and I?ll be stopping for fuel in Holbrook for fuel next Thursday, 6 Sept. You are welcome to meet me there if that is convenient. The plane will be packed for travel, so I can?t give you a ride - but you are welcome to ?try it on?.
F1boss at Gee mail if you want to discuss off list.
__________________
Best,
Mark
"Not everyone needs a Rocket. Some folks, however, shouldn't live life without one.
You know who you are."
Budd Davisson, 1997
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08-31-2018, 05:56 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Clovis, NM
Posts: 139
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Thank you F1Boss! Thursday's are normally very busy for me at work. Maybe I'll be able to catch you on the way back! Worst case, we'll fly down to your home airport in a few weeks and spend the weekend in San Antonio.
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Matt
RV-8A Owner
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09-01-2018, 07:11 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 446
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Rocket vs RV-8
If you can take Mark up on his offer, do so. You won't regret it.
When I decided to take the plunge in 1997, I was deciding on the 4, 8, and the Rocket, and sat in all three. Had a friend who built a 4, and when I closed the canopy, I bumped my head. I went up to Vans and sat in the 1st built 8. A lot more room, but my shoulders rubbed on the side rails. Went down and visited John in Bakersfield and sat in his Rocket. That sold me, even more after he took me for a ride. The Rocket is 4" wider in the front seat, and 4 more inches of leg room in the back seat than a 4. The big decision is if you want the sliding canopy, or tip over. Personally mine has the tip over, which I find so much easier to get in and out of, but there is advantages of the slider. You have to try both and see what you prefer.
I bought his plans, ordered my tail kit and 14 years later I had a flying original HR2. For flying heavies for many years, it took a bit sitting sooooooo low to the ground, but you will get use to it.
I don't fly it as much as I like do to my work schedule, but I never regretted my decision.
It won't make a difference if you go with the HR2 or th F-1, both Mark and John will be very helpful in your build.
Mark, see you in 10 days in Reno, fly safe.
Brian
Last edited by Pdtofly : 09-01-2018 at 07:14 AM.
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09-01-2018, 08:51 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 778
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SARL race speeds
Rockets are clearly faster than RV-8s, but its difficult to get a realistic idea how much faster based solely on anecdotal reports. About 7 years ago I used race data compiled by Bob Axsom over a period of several years of SARL racing to compare speeds of different aircraft types. These data are based on groundspeed only (generally over a closed course), but wind and other conditions tend to average out if enough races are included.
The result I got was that Rockets on average were about 10% faster than RV-8s at race speed, presumably at 50% greater average fuel flow (wide open throttle, 6 cylinders vs. 4). 10% is huge in racing however. The difference may be even greater at normal cruise since speed varies with the cube of power?
More impressive to me was the climb rate difference. I recall getting dramatically out-climbed one occasion by two passing Rockets.
__________________
Alan Carroll
RV-8 N12AC
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09-01-2018, 09:05 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Victoria, Canada
Posts: 2,251
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At 6'2" and on the large side, there is no comparison... the Rocket is like a living room compared to the RV-8.
Let's face it. You know what you want...
Here's are pictures of the one for sale in Langley:
V
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V e r n. ====
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RV-9A complete
Harmon Rocket complete
S-21 wings complete
Victoria, BC (Summer)
Chandler, Az (Winter)
Last edited by vlittle : 09-01-2018 at 09:07 AM.
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09-01-2018, 09:29 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Carroll
Rockets are clearly faster than RV-8s, but its difficult to get a realistic idea how much faster based solely on anecdotal reports...
...The result I got was that Rockets on average were about 10% faster than RV-8s at race speed, presumably at 50% greater average fuel flow (wide open throttle, 6 cylinders vs. 4). 10% is huge in racing however. The difference may be even greater at normal cruise since speed varies with the cube of power?
More impressive to me was the climb rate difference. I recall getting dramatically out-climbed one occasion by two passing Rockets.
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Data from my stable:
RV-8 165 KTAS @ 8.5 GPH (19.4 MPG)
Rocket 202 KTAS @ 11 GPH (18.3 MPG)
I have hundreds of hours of cross country time in both, typically loaded to the gills with PAX and bags.
Between my two ships, a little more than 1 GPH buys you 22% more cruise speed when I pick the Rocket. This is the main reason the -8 sits in the corner most of the time.
Though I dont go flat out very often, I have done some limited testing and the results are as follows:
Rv-8 178KTAS @ 17.5 GPH (10 MPG)
Rocket 220 KTAS @ 25 GPH (8.8 MPG)
Once again, the Rocket outpaces my -8 with a 26% increase in speed for the cost of a bit more than 1 MPG.
Before someone jumps in with their RV-8 numbers, understand that both of my airplanes are pretty dirty, probably solidly in the "typical" realm. Yes, many -8's can do better, but so can many Rockets. When flying again with the SDS EFI, cooling mods and aero cleanup I expect my Rocket to be consideably better than the above numbers.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
Last edited by Toobuilder : 09-01-2018 at 09:48 AM.
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