Engine choices

[RandyAB]

I knew that I wanted an electronic ignition with BPE cold air induction. Van?s Really doesn?t cater well to swapping options. Thunderbolt doesn?t really either. I talked with both BPE and Aerosport, both of which would build to specification and both of which were very knowledgeable and helpful. Ultimately, the Aerosport was slightly more for all brand new Lycoming parts and is the one I chose. As part of the build, they ported and polished the engine, added the BPE induction system and Ross? SDS system, and threw in build school which allowed me to build the engine side by side with a tech that knew every nut and bolt int that engine. Running up after the build was exciting and flawless. No dyno numbers but with 9:1 compression, electronic ignition, and CAI it won?t lack for ponies. I would go with them again in a heartbeat. That being said, I don?t think one could ever go wrong with having Barrett build either. The key for me was flexibility in building exactly to what I wanted.

[woxofswa]

>>New plane should have new engine<<

Originally I felt strongly the same way. Today I wouldn’t argue that such thoughts are wrong, just that they aren’t exclusively correct.

Buying a rebuilt from a premiere shop doesn’t feel like buying used and justifiably so. The (now proven) parts of the bottom end are restored to new specifications and sometimes improved. All of the bearings, gaskets, seals, etcetera are new sometimes using newer tech that the factory isn’t allowed to use. Everything on the top end, plus all the accessories are brand new and can be refined, especially in the area of balancing that the factory isn’t even allowed to do by limitations of their certificate which believe it or not is actually dumbed down by the tolerances necessary for mass production.
Monte Barrett invented a way to redo the valve seats that results in far fewer stuck valves than Lycoming and Lycoming isn’t allowed to copy that, although as I recall they have tried to buy the rights to the technology and shelve it.
A quality rebuild will be smoother running due to better balancing both by scales and by dyno adjustment.
Anything can go wrong with anything mechanical. I once flew a Boeing on its third day of line service and a routine check of one of its magnetic probes was covered in metal.
While I am sure there are horror stories on both sides, in my opinion, the quality shop rebuilds are every bit as durable if not more so than the factory units. Even if the costs were a wash, (they weren’t when I bought) it could be argued that the premiere rebuild is a better value than new.

[rocketbob]

Originally Posted by woxofswa

>
While I am sure there are horror stories on both sides, in my opinion, the quality shop rebuilds are every bit as durable if not more so than the factory units. Even if the costs were a wash, (they weren?t when I bought) it could be argued that the premiere rebuild is a better value than new.

About two months ago a good friend of mine had a major problem with an engine just purchased from one of the boutique shops mentioned in this thread. I was involved in troubleshooting and noticed a few other things with the engine that made me second guess their reputation. After having to jump thru some hoops to prove their engine was built incorrectly, they took it back, fixed the problem, then started finger pointing at their suppliers. Bottom line: they should have noticed the problem during assembly.

So to expect perfection all the time based on a reputation isn't realistic. There are plenty of other engine shops that can build engines to high standards, if one is not confident to tackle a build under supervision. Lycoming engines are crude with sloppy tolerances even on new parts.

[karrelsj]

I went with a Thunderbolt and I have really enjoyed the experience. I am not going to speak badly of anyone else, but I did have contact issues with other providers. In the end, it was really counter intuitive, but I felt like a number at the small shops and like a friend at the big company. Lycoming (Thunderbolt) was able to easily swap out the components for the ones that I wanted. They also hooked me up with other people (vendors) in the industry to get some custom components made. I am normally not one for plugging companies, but I think not enough people know how good thunderbolt treats their customers. On top of that, their pricing is spot on.

http://karrelsj.blogspot.com/search?q=thunderbolt

[falcon900guy]

Bob, I sent you a private message about your engine. Got a Lycon built engine as well and would love to pick your brain. kenny

[douglassmt]

When I was at this stage I learned that Van only bought engines for his personal planes and the company planes from Bart at Aerosport Power. Considering I live not too far from them I figured that was a pretty good referral. I saved enough over the new Lycoming price to buy the Hartzell BA prop. 1200 hours later I'm very happy with the engine and will give them a call when it's time for overhaul or replacement. However, Bart is no longer there so I would want to know if they have maintained the same level of quality, maybe query Van's again as to where they get their engines.

[Brantel]

Originally Posted by douglassmt

When I was at this stage I learned that Van only bought engines for his personal planes and the company planes from Bart at Aerosport Power. Considering I live not too far from them I figured that was a pretty good referral. I saved enough over the new Lycoming price to buy the Hartzell BA prop. 1200 hours later I'm very happy with the engine and will give them a call when it's time for overhaul or replacement. However, Bart is no longer there so I would want to know if they have maintained the same level of quality, maybe query Van's again as to where they get their engines.

I have recently received 2 quotes from them. One for an engine built with new Lycoming parts and one as an overhaul (they provide core which adds 8K to the price) with the same specs less roller rockers.

Both of them are significantly higher than Van's price. Also the overhaul is more than the new with an even higher option to convert to roller rockers.

It seems that Lycoming is pricing parts so high for engine builders that they are having a hard time competing with the factory new option. Talk about price fixing.....

[Walt]

And don't forget Titan direct from the factory, I have a new engine on order for my RV7, not sure why anyone would go used with the price of a new one being quite reasonable.
They will also do whatever you want as far as custom options.
This will be my second ECI/Titan engine, obviously I was happy with the first one or I wouldn't be buying another one.
On average about 1/3 of your airplane value is based on engine/prop value.

http://www.continentalmotors.aero/ti...t-engines.aspx

[RandyAB]

Originally Posted by Brantel

I have recently received 2 quotes from them. One for an engine built with new Lycoming parts and one as an overhaul (they provide core which adds 8K to the price) with the same specs less roller rockers.

Both of them are significantly higher than Van's price. Also the overhaul is more than the new with an even higher option to convert to roller rockers.

It seems that Lycoming is pricing parts so high for engine builders that they are having a hard time competing with the factory new option. Talk about price fixing.....

That?s different from what I experienced once the fuel system, ignition system, and alternators were added and factored in to the final cost. They also put 9:1 pistons in which, if you were considering, I don?t believe is an option with Van?s. Nor I dont believe is optional work such as porting and polishing. Correct me if I am wrong.

[rocketman1988]

"...not sure why anyone would go used with the price of a new one being quite reasonable..."

Reasonable? That's hilarious! For what these engines cost, they ought to be plated in gold.

I found that a new thunderbolt engine, done to my specs, was nearly $10K MORE than my Barrett...

I also looked at Aerosport and it was priced similarly to the thunderbolt...

Very happy with the Barrett product and their customer service has been outstanding...