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  #1  
Old 08-25-2018, 02:08 PM
mfleming's Avatar
mfleming mfleming is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Joseph, Oregon
Posts: 561
Default Horizontal Stabilizer Triangulation Discrepancies

I decided to start a new thread on my -7 horizontal Stabilizer mounting efforts. My previous thread talked about my difficulties getting the HS sitting far enough forward to mount properly. That's resolved.

The issue now is triangulation of the HS.

I figured this would apply to many more models than just the -7 so I'm posting it here in the General Forums area.

The plans call for clamping the HS on the aft deck along the fuselage centerline. Then measuring from a common rivet on the HS tip to a common rivet on the firewall. Those numbers should be the same if the HS is perpendicular (square) to the fuselage.

So I have a quick build fuselage and the darn things not square. I was getting a pretty good error when trying to measure to the firewall. The HS was obviously not square when the firewall measurement were the same. So I used the method shown in the Les Bourne Series videos. He uses a rivet in the center of the fuselage for a reference.

When I measure to the fuselage center, all looks well. The HS is only slightly off when viewing the aft deck.

I think the fuselage center rivet is the way to go...I'm just wanting to make sure before I start drilling holes

Here's what I'm talking about.





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Michael Fleming
Joseph, OR
sagriver at icloud dot com

RV-7 Slider #74572
Started 11/2016
Empennage completed 11/2016 (sans fiberglass)
Ailerons and flaps completed 3/2017.
Wings completed 12/2017
Started on QB fuselage 01/2018
Donated for 2020 and so should you
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  #2  
Old 08-25-2018, 06:48 PM
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wirejock wirejock is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,947
Default Measuring

I took a 6' piece of aluminum angle and centered it to the fuse across the longerons and basically over the center section so a single screw in the angle served as the point of reference. Easy to hook a tape measure to the screw head. It was very useful for all the tail measurements. Just make sure that screw is centered to the fuse.
I do recall my HS was a tiny bit off center like your photo but the tips were exactly the same distance from the reference screw so I called it good.
Wait till you get to the VS!
Tip. Dont cut that mounting plate per plan. In fact, don't cut it at all till you measure and get exact amount to trim. I had to fab a new one.
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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  #3  
Old 08-25-2018, 07:20 PM
rightrudder rightrudder is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Laguna Hills, CA
Posts: 1,805
Default

1/8" difference in the HS tip to firewall measurement is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Build on!!!

You're getting to a critical step of drilling the holes for HS mounting. Take a ton of time here and really nail those edge distances on the longerons.
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  #4  
Old 08-25-2018, 07:32 PM
Mlidzct Mlidzct is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Southington, Ct
Posts: 86
Default

You can put the hs on center and then get it square by rotating about your centerline. Since your bars needed to be tweaked you could be fighting a little difference in the way you bent them. It wouldnt take much difference in the bars to be 1/8? out at the tips
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  #5  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:04 PM
mfleming's Avatar
mfleming mfleming is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Joseph, Oregon
Posts: 561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wirejock View Post
I took a 6' piece of aluminum angle and centered it to the fuse across the longerons and basically over the center section so a single screw in the angle served as the point of reference. Easy to hook a tape measure to the screw head. It was very useful for all the tail measurements. Just make sure that screw is centered to the fuse.
I do recall my HS was a tiny bit off center like your photo but the tips were exactly the same distance from the reference screw so I called it good.
Wait till you get to the VS!
Tip. Dont cut that mounting plate per plan. In fact, don't cut it at all till you measure and get exact amount to trim. I had to fab a new one.
Thanks for the tip about using the aluminum angle across the fuselage. I looked that up in your log...I'm doing that tomorrow

As an aside, did you have your 3/16" aft spacers (drill bits) and your F-798 forward shims in place when you drilled your pilot holes through the HS-714 angle? The plans say no but the Les Bourne video says yes.

About the tip on not cutting the mounting plate...are we talking about the F-781 attach plate for the vert stab??
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Michael Fleming
Joseph, OR
sagriver at icloud dot com

RV-7 Slider #74572
Started 11/2016
Empennage completed 11/2016 (sans fiberglass)
Ailerons and flaps completed 3/2017.
Wings completed 12/2017
Started on QB fuselage 01/2018
Donated for 2020 and so should you
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  #6  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:07 PM
mfleming's Avatar
mfleming mfleming is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Joseph, Oregon
Posts: 561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mlidzct View Post
You can put the hs on center and then get it square by rotating about your centerline. Since your bars needed to be tweaked you could be fighting a little difference in the way you bent them. It wouldnt take much difference in the bars to be 1/8? out at the tips
Yes I agree, the vertical bars are probably throwing things off a bit.

I was really caught off guard on how a very small change at the centerline made such a huge change at the HS tips
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Michael Fleming
Joseph, OR
sagriver at icloud dot com

RV-7 Slider #74572
Started 11/2016
Empennage completed 11/2016 (sans fiberglass)
Ailerons and flaps completed 3/2017.
Wings completed 12/2017
Started on QB fuselage 01/2018
Donated for 2020 and so should you
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  #7  
Old 08-26-2018, 11:52 AM
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skylor skylor is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 882
Default Centerline Reference

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfleming View Post
Yes I agree, the vertical bars are probably throwing things off a bit.

I was really caught off guard on how a very small change at the centerline made such a huge change at the HS tips
As others have said, 1/8? error is quite insignificant in the overall scope of things. However, I noticed that you are using several different centerline references for your HS with different results. What?s important here is that whichever references you use for your HS stabilizer rigging should also be used for centerline reference when you install and rig the wings. Frankly, I would use a centerline point at the firewall as one of the references for both.

Skylor
RV-8
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  #8  
Old 08-26-2018, 12:10 PM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
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Default Tips

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfleming View Post
Thanks for the tip about using the aluminum angle across the fuselage. I looked that up in your log...I'm doing that tomorrow

As an aside, did you have your 3/16" aft spacers (drill bits) and your F-798 forward shims in place when you drilled your pilot holes through the HS-714 angle? The plans say no but the Les Bourne video says yes.

About the tip on not cutting the mounting plate...are we talking about the F-781 attach plate for the vert stab??
Yes on the spacers. I had it exactly where it needed to be before drilling.
Yes, F781. Van's plan shows a dimension to cut. I cut less and still ended up fabricating a new one.
__________________
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-26-2018, 02:45 PM
mfleming's Avatar
mfleming mfleming is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Joseph, Oregon
Posts: 561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skylor View Post
As others have said, 1/8” error is quite insignificant in the overall scope of things. However, I noticed that you are using several different centerline references for your HS with different results. What’s important here is that whichever references you use for your HS stabilizer rigging should also be used for centerline reference when you install and rig the wings. Frankly, I would use a centerline point at the firewall as one of the references for both.

Skylor
RV-8
I just reviewed the wing rigging plan. The plans say this: "Then square the wing with the fuselage. This is done by measuring from corresponding points on the wing tips to a common centerline point of the aft fuselage"

I'm not sure how to equate the HS being square with a point on the firewall and the wing being square using a point on the aft fuselage, being that the firewall is off by ⅛"

The only centerline on my QB fuselage that lines up is from the aft deck to the top of the aft fuselage.

Here's a photo with the laser lined up on the fuselage centerline.



I suppose I could use the most forward centered rivet on the top of the fuselage for squaring the HS. Then use the very aft centerline point on the fuselage for squaring the wing.

This would square everything to the same reference line!?
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Michael Fleming
Joseph, OR
sagriver at icloud dot com

RV-7 Slider #74572
Started 11/2016
Empennage completed 11/2016 (sans fiberglass)
Ailerons and flaps completed 3/2017.
Wings completed 12/2017
Started on QB fuselage 01/2018
Donated for 2020 and so should you
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  #10  
Old 08-26-2018, 04:36 PM
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JonJay JonJay is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
Posts: 4,348
Default

Keep following the plans in sequence as you have been. As mentioned 1/8? is nothing in the scheme of things here. It?s been a long time, But I don?t remember any references to square the HS to the wings?
My QB center section was out of square 1/4? to the firewall. Everything still worked out with one wing zero sweep and the other having 1/2?. It made no difference and she flew straight and true. There is no way my HS is square to the end of the wing. That would be impossible on my build.
Your asking good questions, but don?t get hung up on it. QB fuselages may not necessarily be perfectly square as you are finding out.
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