Fun times at OSH arrival

[hrhodes2@comcast.net]

My alerts drove us nuts last year to the extent of wasted neurons clearing the alerts. Head inside to do it as well. Just like FMS entries in big airplanes one gets diminishing returns the closer to the runway when heads down & inside.

[daniel_hagan]

Have never had the opportunity to attend OSH and am hoping to next year. I have looked at the Notams every year for the past several years "just in case". That said, the idea of having two approach gates would seem to alleviate a lot of the problems. Mass arrivals allowed only in good VFR as discussed would also be helpful. The two ideas together would probably cure most of the problems.

[tfriendshuh]

Originally Posted by scard

This is what I?ve been saying. I?ve yet to find an RV driver that agrees.

I agree :-)

[MarkW]

Having two arrival gates makes a lot of since BUT. With one gate "FISK" they have the ability to keep the flow going when there is a problem on the runway or mass arrivals shut down a runway for a period.
Can you imagine arriving at gate "B" and being told to use gate "A" because they are shutting down for a half hour of mass arrivals.
Single gate with multiple runways gives they more options.
No I don't have the answer either.

Maybe if they had a single gate during the MA's and limit that to only a few morning hours. Then they could have a set time of two gates with both runways and not allow 36 to be shut down for fly overs or MA's after that time.
They could still work in the IFR, Warbird, demo and show planes arrivals with regular flow.
I spent some time listening and watching arrivals Sunday and Monday and I was surprised at how slow the traffic seamed.
I thought they could have easily used 1/2 mile spacing. There were a few periods of saturation that required a few go-arounds but that seemed to be a function of controller/pilot error. The poor IFR Gulfstream went around twice and finally made the third time.

[roadrunner20]

I'm attending a forum session at 1430 today.

Flying In & Out of Oshkosh

This is presented by the NATCA Controllers.


This will be a very interesting one.
See you all at Forum Stage 6

[jonweisw]

Here's an idea -

Use the same flow-control reservation paradigm that IFR traffic has to use. That way, in order to arrive VFR at OSH, you would need to obtain a reservation for a particular arrival slot in advance. This would allow them to control how many aircraft arrive at any given hour and would at least encourage people to read the NOTAM. The accountability could be manifest by not parking anyone who's tail number didn't match up with an arrival slot reservation.

Would also limit the number of mass arrivals at any given time.

[Toobuilder]

So we hear a lot about the arrival being saturated in this thread - Was the actual runway pattern also saturated as well?

In other words, was tower consistently landing airplanes at minimum spacing?

[Raymo]

I'm another that opted to stay home due to the weather outlook for Friday, Saturday and Sunday - and guessing everyone would be trying to get in Sunday afternoon and/or Monday. After reading most of this thread, I know I made the right choice. Unfortunately for Tom (TS FLightLines) Swearengen, he had to drive 18 hours instead of enjoying a relatively short flight.

It would have been my first trip to OSH. Maybe next year!

[Turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by jakej

My first flight into OSH - what an interesting spectacle, I?m surprised there were no mid airs.
So now that we have ADSB don?t people realise that others can see & record what you do ? Whenever we click on an aircraft in FLT rdr24 we can see you & all of the tracking you did & it wasn?t pretty
The selfish, downright dangerous & stupid ones were obvious. I know the weather caused pent up demand for arrivals however that does not excuse the behaviour of many people.

I feel this is a watershed moment for the Oshkosh event & wonder what the FEDs must be thinking. Those who did obviously dangerous things have, IMO, just done a lot of damage to our industry & the good relationships that many people have strived to achieve with the regulators - hang your heads in shame.

Well said, was going to fly there for the first time w my daughter so glad I didn?t go.

Someone should dedicate a website to the selfish idiots who cut people off and did dangerous things. Everyone makes mistakes but you?re absolutely rightt that thiose who blatantly cut people off and ignored the notam should be shamed. That **** could cost someone their life.

[RV7A Flyer]

Originally Posted by odens_14

change 90 knots to 70 knots, and make it clear pilots can fly whichever is most comfortable for their airplane (70/1800 or 135/2300) I'm trying to think of an airplane type that can't fly at one of those speeds comfortably.

You could specify any speed, and there will be a significant number who will insist that they have to fly at some *other* speed. There are always excuses.

I sensed that those speed differentials were adding quite a bit to the spacing problem. It doesn't matter a bit if one flies at the assigned airspeed if either a) the guy behind you is faster, or b) the guy in front is slower, or c) both, spacing is going to get all bolluxed up.

That and I wonder if the spacing is poor from the start (RIPON) because it's a choke point, and if maybe having 2 or 3 "transitions" to RIPON would help? Say, start at points A, B and maybe C with 1-mile spacing, then those three paths merge at RIPON and assume 1/2 mile spacing *at the correct speed*. Might that work instead of a jumble of aircraft all arriving at a single point from multiple directions and at varying speeds?

Thinking out loud here...