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  #31  
Old 07-23-2018, 09:22 PM
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N64GH N64GH is offline
 
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I believe a huge part is pilots not reading or thinking the NOTAM does not apply to them.

Also as more and more controllers hit mandatory retirement the generation taking over does not want to work the problem they try to ignore it or pass the buck. Listing to the arrivals that was obvious. They have no idea how to work the problem so turn everyone left to start over. But that just compounded the problem.
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  #32  
Old 07-23-2018, 09:28 PM
BMC_Dave BMC_Dave is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N64GH View Post
the generation taking over does not want to work the problem they try to ignore it or pass the buck. Listing to the arrivals that was obvious. They have no idea how to work the problem so turn everyone left to start over. But that just compounded the problem.
"Must be the young'uns fault"... Seriously, that's rich...
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  #33  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:12 PM
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N64GH N64GH is offline
 
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I know folks in ATC and they could tell you story after story after endless story of how many (not all) of the younger controllers do not work the problem but default to the easy out which usually does not solve the problem. However I layed the lions share of the blame squarely on the pilots.
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  #34  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:35 PM
wnplt wnplt is offline
 
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The Fisk controller this morning was amazing. Same **** yesterday but he had everyone hold at green lake do not pass ripon until they cleaned out rush lake. Once rush was clean they open ripon to Fisk. When rush lake filled back up they closed ripon had people hold at green lake. They did for hours and it worked well except the yo-yos that cut in, came in when closed, and the ones that don?t know how to hold.
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  #35  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:49 PM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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It would be interesting to see and compare the stats on number of landings.
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  #36  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:58 PM
BMC_Dave BMC_Dave is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N64GH View Post
I know folks in ATC and they could tell you story after story after endless story of how many (not all) of the younger controllers do not work the problem but default to the easy out which usually does not solve the problem. However I layed the lions share of the blame squarely on the pilots.
And I could tell you story after story about how older engineers and managers are stubborn and stuck in old ways of thinking. But I wouldn't ascribe that to an entire generation because that's simplistic scapegoating. I blame it squarely on people's laziness...
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  #37  
Old 07-24-2018, 04:53 AM
KatanaPilot KatanaPilot is offline
 
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First time flying in to OSH this year. Flew from the Atlanta area with a neighbor pilot and made two fuel stops. Got to Ripon area as the weather improved to find Green Lake over saturated. Tried a few times to enter the gaggle but I had neither the patience nor the tolerance for what I saw going on at the lake. Finally made the decision to divert to ATW.

Tied down for the night, but went back the next morning with my son. One turn around Green Lake, one breakout and reenter at Ripon and then in to the yellow dot at 36L. 2300? and 135 kts was a lot easier and provided more energy for breakout options. Good learning experience for both of us and really enjoyed watching him fly the new plane.
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  #38  
Old 07-24-2018, 05:47 AM
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sbalmos sbalmos is offline
 
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Absolutely no offense meant, but that?s part of the problem. 2300/135 is for planes who CANNOT maintain 1800/90. NOT because it is more convenient.

Weren?t the Bonanzas? mass arrival rescheduled to Sunday evening also?

The storms, the B1, ATC who just kept telling everyone to go away (seriously, how hard is it to selectively say ?you come in, you next 5 next to him you lose go away? rather than telling all 30+ in line from Ripon to go away)... this was a complete mess. Been flying here 8 years, and I don?t know how you improve the process of ensuring people read AND FOLLOW the NOTAM, not just the convenient parts. But this was the first year that I actually saw what I would consider airborne road rage. People coming up the conga line KNOWINGLY AND WILLINGLY misspaced or not in line, thinking ATC will call out the other guy and let them in, or that the breakout and hold didn?t apply to them.

Maybe it?s also time to end the mass arrivals and other shutdowns (flyovers) if there are events (weather) that cause super saturation. But we RV pilots CAN and MUST do better.

At least there haven?t been any closures from runway accidents... Yet...
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  #39  
Old 07-24-2018, 05:58 AM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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You can add me to the list of folks that won't be coming back any time soon. We tried to get in Sunday night, made several laps around Green Lake before it became obvious that it just wasn't going to happen, and diverted to KDLL for the night. Next morning, 1.2 hrs trying to make the 45 nm to Ripon and join in, again the holds were saturated and then the field closed. Back to KDLL again, wait 30 min and top off fuel, then spent another 1.8 in the air before finally getting in. The entire time was spent flying loose unbriefed formation flight with untrained rookies, and that's something I don't enjoy.

I don't know what the EAA/ATC can, or will, do to fix this. But this year cured me of coming to Oshkosh. Y'all can have it.
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  #40  
Old 07-24-2018, 06:02 AM
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bryanflood bryanflood is offline
 
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Default Oshkosh mess

We were n the oshkosh mess, about a 2H:45M hold. I would avocate for some changes next year. One thing that comes to mind is a controller at ripon so that it can be actually shut down and allow for spacing into fiske. I think we will be thinking twice about flying to kosh again, or at least when we are flying into kosh. In the 10 years or so i have been involved, ripon has always felt like the-least safe point, often planes cutting in on top of one another. It seems like a well known problem area, i even have a friend who equips his rv with cameras to show others the craziness at ripon. Perhaps a better suggestion would be multiple feeder routes to ripon with multiple controllers. That is not going to stop people holding the wrong direction around the lake or coming in with low fuel, but might be a safer environment.

Bryan

Last edited by bryanflood : 07-24-2018 at 06:29 AM.
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