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07-03-2018, 07:22 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 703
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VOR future question
This has been hashed out before but times change and I could not find a recent thread. Over the 12 years (yes you read that right) I have been building my -7 avionics have changed quite a bit. A few years ago when building my panel I installed a KX 155 with localizer/glideslope, and marker beacon receiver. I had plans to use a hand held GPS. While I have been building I have not done much flying. The other day a friend who is a very active pilot mentioned that VORs were being decommissioned rather than being fixed when they break and localizer type approaches were being fazed out and replaced by GPS approaches. If all this is true how much longer do the folks here think a VOR receivers will be worth having. I am thinking about pulling out the KX 155 and replacing it with an IFR certified GPS. Thanks in advance!
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RV 7
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07-03-2018, 07:31 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 61
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Check out the FAA VOR MON (Minimum Operational Network) at the site linked below:
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...tion_programs/
The FAA plans to keep a certain number of VORs running in case there is a GPS outage.
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-Bob "Beagle" Brents
RV-8 (Reserved: N808B sorta like " BOBB")
(Empennage: 95%)
(Wings: 60%)
?To invent an airplane is nothing. To build one is something. To fly is everything.? - Otto Lilienthal
https://www.facebook.com/fliegen.beagle
Dues Happily Paid 2019
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07-03-2018, 07:47 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Lenox, Michigan
Posts: 178
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NAV AIDS
I can remember back in the 90's when NDB's would go out. They started letting them fall to the wayside. I do believe that LOC & ILS approaches will be around for a long time yet. I also understand that many of the VOR's will remain in service for at least another decade or two.
If I were you I would keep the KX155 with a glideslope and purchase a IFR GPS to compliment your navigation system. Like all technology things change fast, maybe not as fast in aviation but I am sure if you have a Navigation radio and a GPS you'll be fine for many more years.
However, the best time to purchase any electronics for an aircraft is when its finished and ready to fly. Like I said, technology is changing so why purchase anything until you need to. Hold off on that GPS until the bird is ready to take flight.
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Phil Camarda
US Army 2nd/17th Air Cav 101st Airborn
A&P, Commercial & Instrument Pilot
AMEL & ASEL
Helicopters (UH1's, AH1's, S76, H269)
Test Pilot (Military)
Long EZ Driver but love RV's
Dues Paid 5/2020.
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07-03-2018, 08:57 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oconto, WI
Posts: 156
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If you are going to actually use the plane for IFR, a GPS is almost a necessity. Yeah, most bigger airports still have an ILS, but all the neighboring airports have likely lost their VOR approaches in lieu of GPS. So how do you file an alternate? Also, enroute is a real pain as you have to fly the victor airways. Yeah, this is how they did it in the glory days, but turns out the glory days weren't actually so glorious sometimes.
DEM
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07-04-2018, 06:36 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 2,861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallylancer122
If you are going to actually use the plane for IFR, a GPS is almost a necessity. Yeah, most bigger airports still have an ILS, but all the neighboring airports have likely lost their VOR approaches in lieu of GPS. So how do you file an alternate? Also, enroute is a real pain as you have to fly the victor airways. Yeah, this is how they did it in the glory days, but turns out the glory days weren't actually so glorious sometimes.
DEM
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While I agree with you on the GPS, I think having a VOR to give you options is a good idea. It makes no sense to me to willingly throw away VOR/LOC/GS capabilities, even if you don?t need use them very often. What?s so hard about flying airways? I file direct all the time but actually get at least a partial airway routing about 50% of the time and yes I usually use my GPS to fly it (flying in the mid-Atlantic and Southeast). True the routing is longer and there?s more workload using a Nav radio vs a GPS, but I wouldn?t say it?s harder to fly.
I?ve made a couple of IFR trips recently that had NOTAMd GPS outages along the route. Had I been GPS only I wouldn?t have launched, but having Nav radios allowed me to go without hesitation.
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Todd "I drink and know things" Stovall
PP ASEL-IA
RV-10 N728TT - Flying!
WAR EAGLE!
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07-04-2018, 07:08 AM
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Join Date: May 2016
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 6
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VOR/Localizer
I have a KX-155 with ILS in my RV-4. I have used it many times to save my bacon when I got caught on top. I also have a non certified GPS and IPad which I use as a backup "for VFR only." I do not want to pay the $$$ big bucks for a certified IFR GPS plus updates and subscriptions. With a certified KX-155 I can legally file IFR and use the non Certified GPS as a reference instrument only. The ILS system will be here for a long time because it offers lower minimums and very reliable. If I need an alternate, I simply do not file IFR. My 2 cents.
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07-04-2018, 07:15 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Snead Island, Florida
Posts: 205
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VOR/ILS
I just bought an RV-10 and had to make the same decision. I opted for the VOR/ILS in the form of a Garmin 650 (versus the 635 GPS only). In the past 10 years I seldom used the ground based navaids in my Tiger in over 800 hours of traveling but the additional cost was worth the insurance.
You could add a Garmin 430 to give you IFR GPS and a second comm and unless you need LPV minimums (~400? vs 200?), the non-WAAS units are 1/2 the cost. If dollars are tight, you could sell the 155 and replace it with a com only (or use a handheld for backup com 2) and net over $1000. If you wanted a larger display for the 430, the non-touch G3?s are a bargain.
YMMV
Mark Conner
RV-10
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07-04-2018, 07:39 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: houston, texas
Posts: 900
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Us too.
As with the post's above, like #5&6. We have an 8 with a NAV-COM and also have a marker beacon receiver in our audio panel. All "T.S.O." to be proper for the case if needed. This is good back-up and if needed can be used to get us into a class "B" airport if anything goes bad and we need to do that. Those VOR's and ILS approaches will be here for a long time. It is better to fill out some paper work and count you blessings after you call May-day than to keep quite trying to get down in bad weather you did not expect at a smaller airport. Thats what the TAR can do and have done in the past and will be doing for a wile. I would not Take my GNC-255B out for anything, I would fine a way to put a WASS NAV receiver in as you can down the road. Just our two pennies.
Yours, R.E.A. III # 80888
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07-04-2018, 08:01 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oconto, WI
Posts: 156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auburntsts
While I agree with you on the GPS, I think having a VOR to give you options is a good idea. It makes no sense to me to willingly throw away VOR/LOC/GS capabilities, even if you don?t need use them very often. .
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Todd,
For sure! I didn't mean to insinuate removing the KX155. Especially since he already owns it. Just may want to add a GPS.
DEM
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07-04-2018, 08:38 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,301
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Nobody has yet mentioned maintainability of the KX-155. My RV-9A had one when I bought it, but if I recall correctly, it was not easy to find replacement frequency displays. As for marker beacons, I don't know that I can name off hand an ILS that still has one.
I don't recall on the KX-155, but the King audio panel (KMA-24?) with the marker beacon had edge connectors, rather than DB connectors. That was another reason for getting rid of it.
Best advice? Put off buying avionics till the very, very last second.
Ed
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RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual G3X Touch with autopilot, GTN650, GTX330ES, GDL52 ADSB-In)
Previously RV-4, RV-8, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up
2020 dues slightly overpaid
Retired - "They used to pay me to be good, now I'm good for nothing."
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