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06-17-2018, 06:47 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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I also agree with Mel but have another reason to get a Test Pilot to do the first flight.
Most builders have only time in one or two different makes and models of aircraft. Thus it makes it difficult for them to adapt to instrument placement, switch placement, and most importantly, different handling characteristics.
With the rules that allow you to have two people in the plane with you, let someone else fly it and then you fly it with them.
Good luck with your first flight!
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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06-18-2018, 11:07 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,820
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I?ve built 4 planes, and I admit that as the first flight loomed as a reality instead of a far off dream I got butterflies. In the end I did each first flight and it was an amazing feeling of accomplishment. I think it?s a decision that each builder has to make based on their own personal situation. I have been asked by two builders to do their first flight. One I turned down for liability concerns and because I don?t know the quality of his work. The other is a life long friend and that?s the only reason I would consider it.
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06-19-2018, 01:47 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Posts: 406
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AC 90-116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
PLEASE read AC 90-116 very carefully. It is quite restrictive as to the qualifications of all pilots on board.
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I have read re-read this, and believe my first flight plans fit within the rules. The individual I have talked to as my QP is fully qualified for that role in the RV-10. And as the BP I am also qualified. The rules also recommend discussion before each flight to clearly establish each Pilot?s roles for the flight, including who will act as PIC.
So am I missing something.
Thanks
__________________
Dave Macdonald
RV-10 First Flight April 1, 2020.  Currently in Phase 1
2020 VAF Dues Paid
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06-19-2018, 02:54 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
Posts: 69
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I could not recommend either way whether to hire a test pilot or not - it is a too complicated and variable decision and depends on the particular situation.
However, I will explain how and why I decided to make the first flight myself.
I tried to prepare myself with a thorough reading of all the available FAA first flight guidance and made a simple first flight 'before and during checklist'. Then and probably the most useful, I got several hours in friend's same type, same engine/prop equipage planes, including multiple landings, so I knew what to expect. And I flew the routine in my head countless times...till I could hardly wait to do it for real.
As far as the plane goes, it had gone through several fast taxi tests and fuel system examination by a very knowledgeable A&P. Finally, and what I considered most important, in my mind it came down to, did I trust my work and preparation, and if I did not or wasn't sure, why would I want to endanger someone else? Even if they are an "experienced test pilot", if something drastically failed or came apart, they too might likely not be able to do anything about it. Anything else, the plan was "circle back down to the airport". As far as flying the plane was concerned, it should behave like the other two I already flew - and it did! One minor electrical squawks - an EGT that didn't indicate, and that was it.
It's great that AC 90-116 now exists. At the time I did my first flight it didn't, but surprisingly enough my FAA AW examiner literally told me "What do you think 'the crew required for the safe operation of the flight' means?" I took the hint and after the first flight alone, took a qualified pilot friend along, I flew, he took data. It was one of the most memorable experiences of my life.
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06-19-2018, 03:22 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N49ex
....but surprisingly enough my FAA AW examiner literally told me "What do you think 'the crew required for the safe operation of the flight' means?" I took the hint and after the first flight alone, took a qualified pilot friend along, I flew, he took data. It was one of the most memorable experiences of my life.
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While I understand your reasoning, for others reading this, This flight WAS illegal. The FAA AW examiner does not have the authority to interpret, or "bend" the rules.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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06-19-2018, 04:55 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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expanding on Mel's point....
If what the ASI told you was true, why would the FAA have gone to all of the trouble to implement the second pilot flight testing program?
It is unfortunate that a lot of FAA personal do not know what the FAA's official position is on a lot of subjects (then again there is a lot of them).
As Mel mentioned, not knowing, doesn't give them the authority to make up their own definition of the rules.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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06-19-2018, 08:10 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID/Casa Grande, AZ
Posts: 654
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[quote=N49ex;1267920] did I trust my work and preparation, and if I did not or wasn't sure, why would I want to endanger someone else? Even if they are an "experienced test pilot", if something drastically failed or came apart, they too might likely not be able to do anything about it.
i think you mis-interpert the issue.. Most of us; following Van’s plans, will have built a solid aircraft. Along with the FAA airworthiness inspection (and “test pilot preflight inspection”) will farit out any “construction issues.
What is of concern are “rigging issues”; which could have a rather dramatic handling effect for a low time pilot. When Mike Seager took mine up for a first flight; and upon return, stated “don’t change anything...it flys perfect”.
That was more than enough reward for the three years of building...and I could be confident I had a safe stable plane.
__________________
Ric Dickison
307 (CAB) Phantom
Search and Destroy (Can Tho RVN)
Distinguished Flying Cross Society Member
CH-47 & UH-1H "Driver"
Rotax 9 Series Service IRMT
RV-12 Kit#729 "N312RD" is now a full functioning fun machine!! Thanks Van for fulfilling my dream😎
2018 Dues Paid
Last edited by Phantom30 : 06-19-2018 at 08:14 PM.
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06-19-2018, 08:28 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Madison, AL
Posts: 338
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If you have done all your preparations as others suggested and decide to do your first flight yourself, you picked a good plane. I?ve done several first flights and flown four 12s and they all seem to fly the same, like jumping into a Cessna.
Plan on a heavy wing that can easily be adjusted and use a long paved runway since solo initially all will float. I?ve helped several pilots transition and even with coaching all to 55 knots on final they all need a few thousand feet of runway for initial flights. With experience you will learn to manage your airspeed and land in short runways.
__________________
Scott- 2020 donation
New RV-7A N579RV, only 80 hours now without 2020 fly-in destinations
Built RV-12, 328 hours-sold, purchased RV-12 sold, Built RV-9A, 536 hours-sold, Not completed RV-7 sold, Built Kitfox sold
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06-20-2018, 04:16 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmillhouse
...use a long paved runway since solo initially all will float.
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On my first landing, I floated for 4,000'  During my transition training we always landed at 85 Kts and I decided to add a few for good measure. It turned out that my static ports needed some adjustment so my ASI was reading 10 Kts. low. I probably came in at close to 100 Kts, which wasn't a problem because I was on an 8,000' runway.
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(2020 dues paid)
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06-20-2018, 01:10 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snopercod
During my transition training we always landed at 85 Kts
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Hopefully this wasn't training you paid a professional transition training instructor for 
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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