Extended Fuel

[rdamazio]

Originally Posted by jrs14855

Many years ago, before the HF requirement, I did this via Goose, Narsarssuak, Reykavik. A piece of cake EXCEPT for Greenland. I have no desire or reason to ever go to Greenland again.
Most people thinking about this SEVERELY underestimate the dangers that Greenland presents.
St. Johns to Shannon Ireland Is 1693 nautical. 11.3 hours at 150 knots.
HF radios can be rented for $600 a week. So much better and safer than the far northern route.

As another person who wants to fly this trip some day on my -10, I'm very interested in hearing more about the issues with Greenland.

About the tanks - seriously, how do I place an order?

[ppilotmike]

Me too please. I want to know, the same as Rodrigo.

[jrs14855]

Freezing level in Greenland in July was 4000'. With no deicing equipment this essentially means staying out of the clouds. Greenland is notorious for really ugly weather even in mid summer. It is said that when the weather is good in Greenland it is bad in Iceland and I found that to be true on my trip. Moderate rain from East coast of Greenland all the way to Reykavek.
100 knot surface winds in Greenland occasionally occur. I met a guy with an Aztec in Goose, he had been waiting 10 days for better weather in Narssarsuak. I was only on the ground a few hours at Goose, no problem in Greenland. I had just enough fuel to return to Goose if necessary.
The St. Johns to Shannon route in mid summer is relatively benign. Pretty good "big picture" weather available for the entire route.
220knots.com will access a guy who has been doing this for years, he can provide more current information. You probably will need to pay for the info but well worth it.

[jrs14855]

Lots of good history on this. Many libraries have old Flying magazines. In Jan 1954 Flying magazine wrote about three long distance flights, two across the NA. Peter Gluckman did the Greenland Iceland route in a Luscombe 8F. Round trip San Francisco to Germany, Marion Rice Hart did it with a copilot in a B35 Bonanza, St Johns to Shannon. She then spent most of a year flying all over N Africa, the Middle East and all the way to India. She later flew solo around the world in a later Bonanza.
Max Conrad was one of the first, two round trips to Switzerland in a Piper Pacer. This was the start of his long career ferrying light aircraft around the world and later his many world record flights in Piper Aircraft.

[Paddy]

The epic feats of pilots like Gluckman, Conrad and Rice are indeed fascinating. Add to that the fact that they accomplished these flights more than 50 years ago before GPS, digital radios, satellite communicators, ADSB with NexRad or even decent global weather models and you have to marvel at their sense of adventure. Airports like Frobisher Bay and Sondre Sondstrom were still military installations and so unavailable to them. Nevertheless, the weather is still as bad and the perils of the route just as serious. The vast majority of ferry operators now use the northern route because it offers the shortest leg distances over open water and a few more alternates than the more direct route to the south. It’s easy to find accounts of trips on this route on YouTube, here’s an example;
https://youtu.be/W9Uf-ynoDUE

[rdamazio]

Thanks for sharing, that's really good to know.

Originally Posted by jrs14855

220knots.com will access a guy who has been doing this for years, he can provide more current information. You probably will need to pay for the info but well worth it.

I'm afraid that domain doesn't seem to exist (anymore?).

[rdamazio]

Btw, playing with possible routes, I also found one that has an even shorter longest leg, via Flores (LPFL):
https://skyvector.com/?ll=38.1068987...%20GMTT%20LEZL

Is this also a reasonable route, weather-wise? It's a middle ground between the two for the longest leg over water (just over 1000nm).

[Mark Albery]

The Azores is fine as a winter or bad weather alternative if you have the range and equipment including reserves. Several aircraft have crashed into the only mountain in the middle of the North Atlantic, although that was before GPS.

Manuel Queiroz and Jon Johansson both chose that route on their RV world flights.

But my preference during the May to September period would always be the Northern route. Greenland is a very special place to visit, HF not required and can be flown in legs of not more than 350 NM with some planning (250 NM is technically possible!). That is the most popular route for smaller aircraft without extended range regularly through the Summer months.

If you just want to cross 2000 miles of ocean without seeing anything, a first class airline ticket is a lot cheaper and easier.

[jrs14855]

Bermuda and the Azores used to be a popular route but Bermuda has not had avgas for years. Not sure about the Azores. That was the route taken by Gerry Mock, first woman solo around the world. East coast to Bermuda was her first actual IFR. Cessna 180.

[jrs14855]

Oops! She spelled her name Jerrie, not Gerrie. Her book is 38Charlie and is still available. Flight was done in March-April 1964.
Into the wind is book about Max Conrad.
Fate is the Hunter by Ernie Gann covers the early WWII history of the Goose-Greenland-Iceland route. Many of the airports were built in the early days of WWII.

















Book about Max Conrad is Into the Wind.
Fate is the Hunter by Ernie Gann covers the early WWII era and the Greenland and Iceland airports which were built in early WWII.