Skidded turn stalls in landing pattern

[donaziza]

Somewhere here in the forum, is another post and video on a guy doing skidded turn stalls (with his instructor), like what one might do when turning base and final for a landing. So-o-o-o-o-o-o, I had to go out and practice this, but at 7000 FT vs 300 FT. Mine is an RV 8. I first did them clean at about 71 KTS, and then dirty at about 64 KTS. I put in about a 25 degree bank angle and kicked tons of rudder. I'm happy to report that at least with "my" 8, both dirty and clean, I got a whole lot of stall buffeting with no tendency to roll upside down.

SO---I'm glad for that guy's video, and checked my plane out for itself. BUT---ya'll who read this---do go out and practice in your own planes, just to be sure. I got this demonstrated to me, when I was learning how to fly in a T-34. You were on your back so fast, it wasn't even funny.

Blue side up on finals.

[greghughespdx]

Curious, did you monitor/record altitude loss during the maneuvers?

[donaziza]

Originally Posted by greghughespdx

Curious, did you monitor/record altitude loss during the maneuvers?

No----Darn----Now I've got to go do it all over again.

[David-aviator]

I am missing something here, why are you doing this and recommending others do it?

There is a proper way to safely fly an airplane in the pattern, this is not it.

It would be better to practice doing it right rather than demonstrating how badly you can screw up before you kill yourself.

If the approach is messed up, go around and get it right, do not even think about wracking it up, skidding it, even if it can be done at altitude.

(first airplane I flew was T-34 in military flight school long time ago, emphasis was keep the ball centered, we were never demoed how far it can be wracked up before it flips inverted.
Sounds like a fun stunt, but rather useless as otherwise)

[rockwoodrv9]

Im sort of stuck on this one. I have so little flight experience (120 hours) that I can see both sides. I understand that in the video referenced, the instructor pilot lost 800' when he went over. Anywhere in the pattern, he was dead. No amount of spin recovery training can change that.

I will be flying my 9. The "book" says no aerobatics and I am fine with that. I can see that if I ever got in a situation where I was going over if would be less stress to follow through rather than fight it. At least I hope that is how it works.

I have known too many high time pilots that are gone from this very thing. I sure see the advantage of knowing how to recover from a spin and how to stay out of it in the first place. I think once I am flying I will go up with an aerobatic instructor just to get the feelings so I know when I am getting too close.

[wjb]

Yea ... I just saw the video again right in time for a BFR. We went up in a Super D and did some of these; it took a lot of input to get it to break ... and boy it felt strange cross-contolling so much!

[Mark_H]

Originally Posted by David-aviator

I am missing something here, why are you doing this and recommending others do it?

There is a proper way to safely fly an airplane in the pattern, this is not it.

It would be better to practice doing it right rather than demonstrating how badly you can screw up before you kill yourself.

If the approach is messed up, go around and get it right, do not even think about wracking it up, skidding it, even if it can be done at altitude.

(first airplane I flew was T-34 in military flight school long time ago, emphasis was keep the ball centered, we were never demoed how far it can be wracked up before it flips inverted.
Sounds like a fun stunt, but rather useless as otherwise)

Time for a stickectomy

[Plummit]

Originally Posted by David-aviator

I am missing something here, why are you doing this and recommending others do it?

There is a proper way to safely fly an airplane in the pattern, this is not it.

It would be better to practice doing it right rather than demonstrating how badly you can screw up before you kill yourself.

If the approach is messed up, go around and get it right, do not even think about wracking it up, skidding it, even if it can be done at altitude.

Guess they shouldn't teach any kind of stalls then. And spins shouldn't be taught either. Just teach to fly the C-172 like an airliner. Then when that fresh-air machine up front spits a con rod through the case and you have one chance to make a landing in a clear spot and you CAN'T go around... You get the picture. Practice up high and KNOW what to expect!

-Marc

[luddite42]

Originally Posted by rockwoodrv9

I understand that in the video referenced, the instructor pilot lost 800' when he went over. Anywhere in the pattern, he was dead. No amount of spin recovery training can change that.

Actually, according to the visible altimeter it was 600', and he could have recovered in under 500' if he'd actually allowed the airplane to snap around to one full turn before pulling out, rather than recovering the spin inverted and barrel rolling out. Anyone who has a fair bit of spin experience will know the reason for this. This is true, but academic. You say no amount of spin recovery training (and I assume you mean skill as well) can change that, but it's not necessarily true. Of course, anyone with that level of skill and awareness of the degree of rotation performed after stall/spinning their airplane on base to final will not be accidentally stalling the airplane in the pattern in the first place.

[donaziza]

Originally Posted by David-aviator

I am missing something here, why are you doing this and recommending others do it?

There is a proper way to safely fly an airplane in the pattern, this is not it.

It would be better to practice doing it right rather than demonstrating how badly you can screw up before you kill yourself.

If the approach is messed up, go around and get it right, do not even think about wracking it up, skidding it, even if it can be done at altitude.

(first airplane I flew was T-34 in military flight school long time ago, emphasis was keep the ball centered, we were never demoed how far it can be wracked up before it flips inverted.
Sounds like a fun stunt, but rather useless as otherwise)

And you were an airline pilot?? You never practiced stalls in the sim, so you wouldn't do it for real??