VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #21  
Old 04-18-2018, 01:04 PM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,884
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
It?s clear that MyCool is interpreting the law the way he likes; here?s how the FAA interprets it:
91.319(a) talks about the OPERATOR. In plain language, that is the owner.
91.319(2) says the owner may not be paid for having his airplane used to fly people or cargo.
If you rent an EAB, you are paying the operator (owner) to fly people (yourself). This is expressly forbidden.

First, I'd like to thank Sam for not killing this thread. I've found that when opinions get thrown around, even about stuff that should already be clear, I can often learn something new about a tangent that pops up during the discussion.

Now, to the splitting of hairs.

To the quoted passage above: (Note that I'm not claiming it's legal to rent a homebuilt.) The last statement does not parse, from an FARs standpoint. If you substitute 'certificated aircraft' for 'EAB', it would mean that renting a certificated aircraft is also illegal, unless it's being operated under a charter certificate (Part 135?). Now, if I *paid the owner* to fly me, I'd be paying *him* to fly people.

If I pay the owner of an FBO that rents certified aircraft to fly me somewhere in his rental plane, it's illegal (that becomes a part 135 operation, which he isn't set up to do). But if I rent his rental plane to fly myself, it's legal because I'm not paying the owner (operator) to transport me.

I'm not writing this just to stir the pot; I see a significant difference between renting and paying to transport people/cargo. Am I wrong?

Charlie
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-18-2018, 02:17 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkW View Post
If I illegally rented out my RV would I have to do 100 hour inspections?
In fact, if you legally rent it, under a waiver of the applicable FAR (e.g., LODA for transition training (only)), the answer is essentially yes. My LODA specifically states that the airplane must have had a condition inspection within the previous 12 months or 100 hours, whichever came first.

Now I?m going to give up and join the popcorn crowd.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-18-2018, 09:21 PM
patterson patterson is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queen Creek AZ
Posts: 541
Exclamation Put me back up!

Sam,
You deleted my response....
Im now convinced I was getting it right.
Please put It back.
Thanks!
Ron Patterson
__________________
Ron
RV-4 N8ZD Sold
Phat -4 under construction
regular VAF donor despite being exempt
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-18-2018, 09:25 PM
Sam Buchanan's Avatar
Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
been here awhile
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patterson View Post
Sam,
You deleted my response....
Im now convinced I was getting it right.
Please put It back.
Thanks!
Ron Patterson
I have not deleted anything in this thread.

Did some checking. Your post was in an earlier thread today that was deleted by a different moderator.
__________________
Sam Buchanan
RV-6
Fokker D.VII replica

Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 04-18-2018 at 09:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-18-2018, 10:23 PM
davidkarlsberg davidkarlsberg is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: LA
Posts: 127
Default

Not only is it illegal to rent a homebuilt, it's also impossible. There are no RVs for rent in the New York area nor are there any for rent in the entire country! If the original poster of this thread finds one I would be interested to hear about it.
__________________
Los Angeles
RV-7 Builder
www.davidkarlsberg.com
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-19-2018, 08:43 AM
mbauer mbauer is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Nikiski, AK
Posts: 413
Default Rent An RV?

Can't be serious with a question like that.

Can't even imagine letting my RV out of my sight, with someone else at the controls. Talk about lose the RV grin! I'd have bad-dreams even during the day.

Hold it, Yes he can rent an RV-go down to the local Class A or C motorhome rental company!

Best regards,
Mike
__________________
Mike Bauer
N999SN 1998 Syd Nelson RV-6 (purchased 2017)
UTC -09:00 Alaska
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-19-2018, 02:03 PM
RV12JT RV12JT is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Keystone State
Posts: 128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidkarlsberg View Post
Not only is it illegal to rent a homebuilt, it's also impossible. There are no RVs for rent in the New York area nor are there any for rent in the entire country! If the original poster of this thread finds one I would be interested to hear about it.
Except for the factory built (not EAB) S-LSA RV-12.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-24-2018, 02:16 PM
Mycool's Avatar
Mycool Mycool is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: West Hills, CA
Posts: 386
Default Not true

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
It’s clear that MyCool is interpreting the law the way he likes; here’s how the FAA interprets it:
91.319(a) talks about the OPERATOR. In plain language, that is the owner.
91.319(2) says the owner may not be paid for having his airplane used to fly people or cargo.
If you rent an EAB, you are paying the operator (owner) to fly people (yourself). This is expressly forbidden.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...;20120-12A.pdf

ADVISORY CIRCULAR 120-12a states clearly that "persons" is not a required crew member such as a pilot with proper endorsement.

And so we are clear below is actual verbiage of 91.319...

§ 91.319 Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.
(a) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate -

(1) For other than the purpose for which the certificate was issued; or

(2) Carrying persons or property for compensation or hire.


IN ADDITION TO HELP CLEAR UP THIS ISSUE I HAVE PUT IN A REQUEST TO THE CHIEF COUNSEL AT OKLAHOMA CITY. IM NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE ANYONE HERE ON THIS FORUM, IM TRYING TO INFORM ACCURATELY THE LAW THAT IS INPLACE TODAY.
__________________
US ARMY VETERAN (75th & 1st 509th Airborne)

CFI, CFI-I, MEI, MEI-I, A&P

RV Transitional trainer
RV9A - FLYING
RV3 ?a? - FLYING 200+MPH
Onex - Building
Q200- Rebuild in progress
Wheeler Express - Sold
Grumman AA1-C - Sold
Grumman AA5 - Sold

Last edited by Mycool : 04-24-2018 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Added verbiage
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-24-2018, 07:27 PM
MercFE MercFE is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Maple Valley, WA
Posts: 273
Default

A little light reading for you on the subject...

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf

Notice they mention that the company can fly an experimental aircraft as long as the pilot is the sole occupant and an EMPLOYEE of the company.

Came up with this letter with a quick Google search. As well as other people asking the same question about "renting" an aircraft with the same guidance you have been given by multiple people here.

Good luck on your quest for changing the regulation... But renting an aircraft does in fact mean that you have compensated the owner of the aircraft to be able to carry you as the pilot.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-24-2018, 08:05 PM
davidkarlsberg davidkarlsberg is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: LA
Posts: 127
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycool View Post
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...%20120-12A.pdf
...

IN ADDITION TO HELP CLEAR UP THIS ISSUE I HAVE PUT IN A REQUEST TO THE CHIEF COUNSEL AT OKLAHOMA CITY. IM NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE ANYONE HERE ON THIS FORUM, IM TRYING TO INFORM ACCURATELY THE LAW THAT IS INPLACE TODAY.
First of all no need to yell. All caps is the equivalent of yelling in an internet forum. Please let us all know what the "chief counsel" says.
__________________
Los Angeles
RV-7 Builder
www.davidkarlsberg.com
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:30 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.