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  #31  
Old 11-23-2016, 09:39 AM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
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Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
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Mike ----- have you considered using the vacuum pad to drive a back up alternator???

Might want to leave that gear in.
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Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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  #32  
Old 11-23-2016, 10:22 AM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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That's the one thing that brings me pause, but at this point a backup alternator is not going to be used - even in the unlikely event this becomes a "hard" IFR ship.

...and if I do change my mind, then peeling off the accessory case and installing the missing hardware is only a minor consideration.
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C

Last edited by Toobuilder : 11-23-2016 at 10:25 AM.
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  #33  
Old 11-23-2016, 07:08 PM
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Weasel Weasel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toobuilder View Post
Until someone else jumps in and tells us different, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the 540 will only benefit from less geartrain mass. There is no balance shaft back there and the crank has pendulum dampeners. Im curious to see if anyone can tell me differently because my engine is apart now and I'm seriously considering leaving out one of the idler gears and the fuel pump pushrod. Since I'm going with the SDS EFI system I only need to drive the cam. All the other hardware used to drive accessories can stay on the shelf in a box as far as I'm concerned.

Of course there is also a long history of 540's flying with the magnetos removed in favor of other EI systems.
As you probably already know.....make sure you plug off the oil lubrication holes that lube the idle gears.
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Weasel
RV-4 715hr Sold
RV-10 "School Bus" - +1600hr counting
Fisher Classic Cassler Power VW sold
RV-10 N7631T 820hr Sold
RV-8 700+hrs
Carbon Cub 200 hr Sold
One-Off Super Cub 100 hr
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  #34  
Old 11-23-2016, 07:19 PM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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I do, but thank you for pointing it out.
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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  #35  
Old 03-16-2018, 06:41 AM
Dustyone Dustyone is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Brisbane,Austalia
Posts: 188
Default Dual CPI Update

Wow time flys!!

I have been flying with the first CPI for over a year and although Ross is working on the CPI2,I had some ideas and designs of my own with regards to an auxilary power system that requires no pilot input.

In early February,I finally had the chance to remove my last Magneto and install my 2nd CPI.

Removing the last mag and all components was very satisfying. My engine has only done 435hrs SMOH and I was surprised to find the drive couple shaft spinning on the bearing.Although a failure was not imminent,it just adds to the case of how many moving parts are required to keep the Magnetos spinning.





I had already run all the wires and installed the Dual Crank sensor in my first install,so most of the work was running the new ignition leads and setting the timing for the 2nd CPI. This was the fun part of the project.
The Ignition coils and Modules are kept high and dry on their new CNC mount. (all CPI firewall forward components are water proof)







Oil changes and any maintenance at the rear of the engine is now very straight forward with visibility and access greatly improved with the removal of both Magnetos.

The 2nd CPI runs on its own E-Bus with its own back up battery and battery management system.
I chose a 9ah battery that fits behind the R/H Dynon screen.
The 2nd CPI will run over 3 hours on this battery.
My brother Ray, designed a "No Break Battery management unit" for the 2nd battery. ( he has a long career in telecommunications that use a lot of similar systems to keep the phones working during black-outs.) I expect it will work similar to Ross's new design as much as there is no pilot action required with any failure mode.
The 2nd Battery is monitored on the VPX and the alarm limits have been set for over/under voltage.



(zip ties are tempory)

Flight testing is on going and the initial results are what you would expect.
Engine starting is effortless,with the powerful ignitions able to ignite a very large range of Air Fuel Ratios.

The economy I was looking for is defiantly there,higher the better.


The ignition system allows you to go much leaner until lean misfres start and combustion can no longer be maintained. In this photo you can see No1 cooling off as it starts to misfire. (I am very envious of the electronic fuel injected installs)


And the power is there ,
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Ashley Miller
RV-10 #40597
Dual SDS CPI
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=140051
Airflow Systems Air-Con
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...4&postcount=15
VH-XTE 700hrs +
Redcliffe,Brisbane
Australia
Photos : https://goo.gl/photos/zsfBeVofHMe4ze7i7

Last edited by Dustyone : 07-08-2018 at 07:14 PM.
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  #36  
Old 03-16-2018, 07:04 AM
Dustyone Dustyone is offline
 
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Location: Brisbane,Austalia
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In Cruise,the engine is very happy,with good speed and economy.


The two modules hide behind my iPad and are very easy to play with to try different timing settings.So far,at the altitudes I fly the most.29 degrees seems to be the best setting with more advance only increasing CHTs with no speed gain. Going higher is a different story. I have O2 and like flying high,but with no useful winds at higher altitudes ,I'll have to wait for more testing.


My next round of testing will be to lock down the Mogas map.
I am expecting just setting 3 degrees less on all settings will give me the results I am looking for.
Very easy to do with Ross's LOP switch being re-tasked to a "Fuel Timing Switch".



In conclusion,the whole upgrade has been very satisfying and the goals that I had hoped to achieve have all been met.
-Zero maintenance ignition system
-Coils,Modules,plugs and wires,all available locally in Australia (not the CPI boxs)
-Simple operation with all voltages monitored and failure mode automatic with no pilot action required.
- Two timing maps to support Mogas

Thanks to Ross and the SDS team for a great product.
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Ashley Miller
RV-10 #40597
Dual SDS CPI
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=140051
Airflow Systems Air-Con
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...4&postcount=15
VH-XTE 700hrs +
Redcliffe,Brisbane
Australia
Photos : https://goo.gl/photos/zsfBeVofHMe4ze7i7
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  #37  
Old 03-16-2018, 07:21 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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You do nice work Ashley and this is a great presentation with the clear photos here.

Will be good to see what your high altitude testing shows for advance settings.

Thank you for the report.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.0 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm


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  #38  
Old 03-16-2018, 04:14 PM
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ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
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Location: Denver, CO
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Ashley,

Nice write-up. I have a couple of questions:
1) Can you give some more details about the "No Break" battery management system? What are the pros and cons?
2) I am assuming from your comments that the system you have is only an electronic ignition system and does not include electronically controlled fuel injection; therefore no return lines are needed, correct?
3) Doesn't Ross offer a "complete" setup with electronically managed fuel injection as well as engine ignition? Why did you choose not to do that? If you had it to do over again, would you go full, dual electronic ignition AND fuel injection?

Thanks.
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EAA Chapter 301 www.eaa301.org
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  #39  
Old 03-18-2018, 07:05 AM
Dustyone Dustyone is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Brisbane,Austalia
Posts: 188
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Hi Mike,

1 - The "CPI No-Break Management System" was designed by my brother who is an electrical engineer and has spent most of his career in Telecomunications.
The goal was to make a stable back -up power system that required no pilot action in case of any primary power failure.
It is our design of what Ross is developing for the CPI2
http://www.sdsefi.com/cpi.htm

Specifications
No-break automatic changeover
LifePO4 12.8V 9Ah
Inbuilt Battery Management System
Internal automatic resettable fuses
Battery voltage connection for Dynon
Minimal battery discharge when off
Voltage maintained during engine start
Primary battery voltage >= 14.0V
For full charging under engine run:
Ignition secondary system will function
normally with failed or missing battery
Linear circuit design no RFI
Endurance >120 minutes

Ignition Lower No-Break Battery
Drypower IMF12-90E2
12.8V 9Ah 115Wh Internal BMS
Lithium Ion Phosphate LifePO4
Maxium continuous load 12A

The Second ignition system runs on its own E-Bus and shares no common path with the Primary Ignition.

2 - This is electronic ignition only,I am still retaining my Bendix Mechanical Injection. However I can see some Turbo Injectors in my future to assist in helping atomising the fuel at very lean mixtures.
To install a full SDS EFI system on my already flying aircraft with its 4 x fuel tanks ,would take a lot of re-design of my fuel system.

3- If I was building another RV-10 for myself,I would go full SDS EFII from the start.All of the concerns with electronics come down to a robust power system and soild wiring techniques.
The savings in cost -of-ownership over the life of the aircraft and the use of Mogas fuel are too great to be ignored.

Mike ,there are many ways to install an electric ignition,this is the way I have chosen. There are many ways to achieve the above and Ross's new CPI2 will proberly be the easiest way in one neat package.

Exciting times ahead !
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Ashley Miller
RV-10 #40597
Dual SDS CPI
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=140051
Airflow Systems Air-Con
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...4&postcount=15
VH-XTE 700hrs +
Redcliffe,Brisbane
Australia
Photos : https://goo.gl/photos/zsfBeVofHMe4ze7i7

Last edited by Dustyone : 07-08-2018 at 07:17 PM.
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  #40  
Old 03-27-2018, 07:48 AM
Kellym Kellym is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustyone View Post
Hi Mike,

<snip>
2 - This is electronic ignition only,I am still retaining my Bendix Mechanical Injection. However I can see some Turbo Injectors in my future to assist in helping atomising the fuel at very lean mixtures.
To install a full SDS EFI system on my already flying aircraft with its 4 x fuel tanks ,would take a lot of re-design of my fuel system.

3- If I was building another RV-10 for myself,I would go full SDS EFII from the start.All of the concerns with electronics come down to a robust power system and soild wiring techniques.
The savings in cost -of-ownership over the life of the aircraft and the use of Mogas fuel are too great to be ignored.

Mike ,there are many ways to install an electric ignition,this is the way I have chosen. There are many ways to achieve the above and Ross's new CPI2 will properly be the easiest way in one neat package.

Exciting times ahead !
A couple notes of caution. The early discussions of toggle switches sent shivers down my back. A friend crashed his Titan T-51 when reaching for a flap switch he brushed against the electronic ignition switch, killing the engine on short final, seriously damaging the aircraft, thankfully no injuries.
If you use toggles for ignition, please protect them with covers.
Second, another friend had a P-Mag/E-mag setup in RV-7. Lost all ignition shortly after take-off, did the "impossible turn" and did just make the runway. Both EMag products had been fried by a bad voltage regulator, internal to the kit supplied Nippondenso alternator.
I'm sure we all try to think of and cover all possible failure modes, when another crops up.
As for LOP and using Mogas...the IO-540 used in the RV-10 was certified on 91/96 octane gas, just like the O-360 used in Cherokees that have Mogas STCs. It should not have problems as long as ethanol-free mogas of 91 or better octane is used. I have not tested mine for that to date.
I run LOP whenever the segment is long enough to actually get there. My trip to OSH last summer was flown mostly at 8500-11500, LOP at around 60% power with TAS around 160kts. Without trying too hard on mixture or speed, I averaged 11.3 gph for the entire trip, including takeoff, climb and other non-cruise modes. My engine is stock, with 8.5 compression. I am still using a pair of Bendix S-1200 mags, which perform beautifully at high altitude, as they were designed before pressurized mags became common on turbo-charged engines. I may think about electronic ignition when the mags are due for overhaul, but not a lot of incentive to go down that road.
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