VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.


Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-12/RV-12iS
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #61  
Old 02-22-2018, 11:06 AM
todehnal todehnal is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky Lakes area in KY
Posts: 980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by funflying View Post
Tom,

I was following the same logic and concerns so I spoke with Support and parts at Vans on Wednesday.

What I learned was first if you followed the SB procedure on SB 16..... involving the bearing and if it checked out good no need to replace it. The new bearing is no different than the current bearing, and my choice is if it?s not broken or not a new design improvement, I?m not going to mess with it. Your choice however.

The clips mentioned are for the adjustment turnbuckle/s of the cables to the stabilator accessed through the belly inspection holes. These lock the turnbuckle after the correct tension is achieved. Parts at Vans said two clips are included with the parts for SB 18-02-02 in case there is a need to readjustment the cables after inspection or compliance of this SB. However this will only accommodate one turnbuckle

Hope this helps.
Thanks Patrick. I just saw your reply. When you called, did you get any explanation of the difference between the 2 bearing choices in the SB.
IE; VA146 replacement, and Bearing DW4K2X ?

Tom
__________________
2013- RV12, Kit #119. N123M First flight Nov21. It's a keeper!
1998- RV-9 tail kit, built and sold
1989- RV-6 tail kit, built and sold
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 02-22-2018, 11:20 AM
rvbuilder2002's Avatar
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,667
Default

The text in the SB says "If a bearing and flange becomes damaged order a ?VA-146 Flange Bearing? for replacement. If
you wish to just replace the bearing order ?BEARING DW4K2X? for replacement.


The bearing with flange is the VA-146 part #. The flange is what the bearing is a press fit into, and what you are loctiting it into if it is found to be loose.

This can be seen in the KAI Section for the tail cone.

So the Bearing part # is for just the bearing... should you need to replace just that portion (got loctite into it, etc.). If the SB work is completed properly, you should not need either part.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
FAA/DAR
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 02-22-2018, 12:00 PM
todehnal todehnal is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky Lakes area in KY
Posts: 980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
The text in the SB says "If a bearing and flange becomes damaged order a ?VA-146 Flange Bearing? for replacement. If
you wish to just replace the bearing order ?BEARING DW4K2X? for replacement.


The bearing with flange is the VA-146 part #. The flange is what the bearing is a press fit into, and what you are loctiting it into if it is found to be loose.

This can be seen in the KAI Section for the tail cone.

So the Bearing part # is for just the bearing... should you need to replace just that portion (got loctite into it, etc.). If the SB work is completed properly, you should not need either part.
Thanks Scott. That was exactly what I needed. Thanks, so much for your explanation and help.........Tom
__________________
2013- RV12, Kit #119. N123M First flight Nov21. It's a keeper!
1998- RV-9 tail kit, built and sold
1989- RV-6 tail kit, built and sold
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 02-22-2018, 01:46 PM
Tony_T's Avatar
Tony_T Tony_T is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 1,433
Default Still unclear on SB 16-08-01

I know, wrong thread, but the questions have come up here and it is pertinent if the stab is removed for SB 8-02-02

If the bearing is not loose then you don't have to fix anything, but will still have to bang on the stab ends at each annual and make a logbook entry that satisfies SB 16-08-01. Plus, the bearing could become loose at some time in the near future, especially with all that pounding back and forth, and the stab would have to come off again!

BTW, how do the guys with fiberglass stab tips bang on those tips to satisfy the SB?

So fixing the bearing while the stab is off makes a lot of sense -- to me anyway.

Questions are:
How to tell if the bearing itself is bad and then just order the bearing and the green Loctite? Why green Loctite, isn't that the one that wicks in without disassembling the parts?

If you damage something and order the VA-146, I assume the bearing comes pressed into the flange but is it Loctited in? Apparently the original VA-146 were not Loctited, that is why they can come loose. If the VA-146 is now Loctited, should it not have a part number suffix indicating it is different than original?
__________________
Tony
E-LSA RV-12 ULS

Last edited by Tony_T : 02-22-2018 at 01:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 02-22-2018, 02:25 PM
rvbuilder2002's Avatar
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,667
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_T View Post
I know, wrong thread, but the questions have come up here and it is pertinent if the stab is removed for SB 8-02-02

If the bearing is not loose then you don't have to fix anything, but will still have to bang on the stab ends at each annual and make a logbook entry that satisfies SB 16-08-01. Plus, the bearing could become loose at some time in the near future, especially with all that pounding back and forth, and the stab would have to come off again!

BTW, how do the guys with fiberglass stab tips bang on those tips to satisfy the SB?

So fixing the bearing while the stab is off makes a lot of sense -- to me anyway.

Questions are:
How to tell if the bearing itself is bad and then just order the bearing and the green Loctite? Why green Loctite, isn't that the one that wicks in without disassembling the parts?

If you damage something and order the VA-146, I assume the bearing comes pressed into the flange but is it Loctited in? Apparently the original VA-146 were not Loctited, that is why they can come loose. If the VA-146 is now Loctited, should it not have a part number suffix indicating it is different than original?
The bearing being loctited in is not the engineering requirement. The requirement is that there be a proper interference fit so that the bearing stays tight in service.

The VA-146 used to be assembled by an outside vendor in which a quality control problem developed, so production was brought in house.

The use of the loctite as an alternate method of bearing retention when one is found to not be as tight as desired, to avoid needing to replace the bearing flange which would be a big job.

People do use the green loctite by letting it wick between parts in some situations, but that is not what Loctites installation requirements say is acceptable.

Tests were done, to see if wicking it from the outside would be sufficient.

It wasn't.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
FAA/DAR
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 02-22-2018, 02:49 PM
Jim T Jim T is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Independence, OR
Posts: 244
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_T View Post
BTW, how do the guys with fiberglass stab tips bang on those tips to satisfy the SB?
Excellent point Tony.

I have the fiberglass tips on order and was going to install them at the same time I'm doing SB 18-02-02 and SB 18-02-03. Looks like I might be going through the loctite process on the stab bearings also, if I'm going to install the tips. All this on a plane that isn't even flying yet! Oh well!

Jim

PS: Just read the procedure in the "Maintenance Manual" for loctiting (is that a word) the bearing into the housing. Doesn't seem like too big a deal and will solve the stabilator tip issue.
__________________
RV-12 kit (sold)

2006 Rans S-6S Coyote (flying)

Last edited by Jim T : 02-22-2018 at 03:01 PM. Reason: additional info
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 02-22-2018, 05:17 PM
engineerofsorts's Avatar
engineerofsorts engineerofsorts is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 306
Default SB 18-02-02 and SB 18-02-03 parts backordered

Van's sent out email indicating that both these service bulletin fix-um-up kits are now out of stock, and delayed until March 5th. I did receive the SB 18-02-03 kit today, but no such luck on the SB 18-02-02 kit.
__________________
Rob Reese
RV-12 #120332 N73HR
Austin, TX
TangoFlight Mentor
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 02-22-2018, 05:42 PM
John C's Avatar
John C John C is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Moundridge, KS
Posts: 149
Default Found a crack

120323 290 hours on the Hobbs. I had not applied dye penetrant before but had watched the application on larger part.

Facing forward, it was at the right outboard hinge bracket, upper bolt nutplate, inboard rivet. It was about 1/8 inch and went into or came out from under the rivet. The good news is I need only one stop drill whereas it appears to me the SB example would need two.

I needed the dye to see it. In fact, I missed it the first time with the dye but was not satisfied with the developer cover, too thick I thought. Since it was a tight area, the spray dye was too much and is probably still wicking down the spar toward the tip. I did spray it lightly.

The next 3 or 4 times I wiped the dye on with a rag. Wiping on seemed effective as long as I kept the surface wet. Cleanup was much easier.

Once I knew where the crack was, I could see it with a 10x loop or use the macro setting on the camera. I could not have found it without the dye.

I tried it four times instead of three because when I wiped the third test, I could see the crack but could not see the end. On the fourth test, I center punched the spot with the dye and developer still showing the end, I hope.

The servo tabs did not present a dye indication.
__________________
John Clark
Moundridge, KS
RV-9A 90512 N6699 Sold
RV-12 120323 N6699Z 650 hours
dues paid 2021

Last edited by John C : 02-22-2018 at 06:24 PM. Reason: Had wrong serial number
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 02-22-2018, 06:04 PM
waterboy2110 waterboy2110 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by engineerofsorts View Post
Van's sent out email indicating that both these service bulletin fix-um-up kits are now out of stock, and delayed until March 5th. I did receive the SB 18-02-03 kit today, but no such luck on the SB 18-02-02 kit.
Ordered the stab SB last week. Called and was told it didn’t ship. OK with grounding the plane while the parts come in (took it apart before I had the parts). Time to wash and wax.
__________________
http://jimsrv.blogspot.com
PP - ASEL
Instrument Rating
A&P/IA Rotax iRMT 9 Series Maintenance
EAA Technical Counselor
RV12 Flying.

Last edited by waterboy2110 : 02-25-2018 at 08:07 PM. Reason: nice
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 02-22-2018, 06:22 PM
John C's Avatar
John C John C is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Moundridge, KS
Posts: 149
Default Some history on 120323

I built the airplane and have been the only one flying. From my -9A flying, I tend to keep the stick aft when taxiing. If there is wind, gusts or airplanes operating nearby, I tie the control stick. It certainly is possible that there were events where the controls were not tied, but it was not routine.

Of course, with fatigue, a single event could load the spar and initiate a fatigue crack.

There are two ways that could be an issue. Of course, a gust lifting the tail would put the top stop into compression. Also, holding the stick aft while taxiing or landing would do the same. If initiated from the aft stick, there would also be a load couple between the stop and the upper control horn.

Just some thoughts.

I did not look closely at the stop bushings until I had removed them. Two are more heavily marked. I need to remove the paint to see if the bushing is marked. As you start to remove the brackets and bushing, document the condition of the bushings.
__________________
John Clark
Moundridge, KS
RV-9A 90512 N6699 Sold
RV-12 120323 N6699Z 650 hours
dues paid 2021

Last edited by John C : 02-23-2018 at 07:06 AM. Reason: grammar issue
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:37 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.