Low time Pilot, New (to me) RV, motion sickness

[rgmwa]

Originally Posted by Hongie

The lack of an ordinary ASI bothers me a little. I feel that a quick glance down to see the needle position and then back up and outside will be easier to interpret on short final, but time will tell.

You can set up the Skyview to show round dials if you prefer, but it doesn't take long to get used to the tape display. With that RV as motivation and flying left seat, your air sickness will probably disappear before too long as well. Best of luck.

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

Round vs tape (and somewhat on topic)...
* If you know what the reading (airspeed, altitude) should be and you're watching it all the time, like when you're hand-flying an ILS, tapes and dials are roughly equivalent;
* If you have no knowledge of what the reading should be, and need to get information at a glance, dials win;
* If the reading is changing rapidly, dials win;
* If the numeric readout on the tape is directly above the tape itself, then you've effectively got just a numeric readout when it comes to fine adjustments.

I've flown tapes doing research in the engineering simulators at Boeing and Gulfstream, but I fly round dials in the -9A.

It's interesting that over the years, many manufacturers have faithfully emulated the limitations of a small attitude indicator instead of using all available screen real estate -- there's a reason that the early jets had 5" attitude indicators instead of 3". And Dynon on its early round dial displays put a small attitude indicator in front of a synthetic vision display, and the horizon lines were offset. Their chief engineer and I had some serious disagreements on that design point...

[Saville]

I had a pretty severe problem with airsickness. First example was doing spins on my first small plane ride, in a C-150 in the 1970's.

Second example was AFROTC summer camp T-37 ride. There I didn't upchuck but I was close.

Got my PPL and then taildragger endoresment and didn't really have any trouble.

Then I moved to aerobatic training. Very bad case. I stick with it and learned several things - most (if not all) were listed in this thread:

1) No burger and fries before the flight

2) Having the IP on the controls makes it all worse even if I know what he or she is about to do (aerobatics only - regular flying it's not an issue).

3) I MUST keep a blast of fresh cool air on my face and keep my body cool. I would fly with just a jean jacket in Winter when the IP was all bundled up in the back seat.

4) Ginger never helped me. YMMV

5) Wrist band never helped me. YMMV

6) I read Bob Hoover's account and knew I could beat it.

7) I learned where the edge was. When I went up for aerobatic instruction I identified these four points:

Defcon 4 - I'm not queasy all is well

Defcon 3 - I'm sweating and maybe starting to burp

Defcon 2 - I now feel queasy but throwing up is not imminent. THIS is where I stopped the aerobatics and flew back for T&G's. I MUST stop here. Even one more maneuver can push me over the edge.

Defcon 1 - I've gone one maneuver too far. It's likely to happen

At first I could do only ONE aerobatic maneuver and then it was Defcon 2 and RTB. I kept at it. After a few flights I could do two...then a few more I could do 3...and in time I could fly acro the entire hour. Though one time I was on final, asked the IP to take over, threw up in the bag, closed it, took the controls back and landed.

8) I think there's a huge psychological impact here. Once one is afraid of getting sick then the worries about getting sick make it more likely.

9) Smells can be part of the psychological impact. The smell of the Super Decathlon I was flying would be enough to bring on the worries and even a belly flutter.

10) If I got acclimated and could do acro for an hour...and then didn't fly acro for 2-3 months I regressed. I lost most of the acclimation. But it came back faster. Just keep an eye out for Defcon 2.

11) Flying smoothly even in acro and not ramming the stick hard and fast will get you further before Defcon 2.

12) I did not try Dramamine because it makes me sleepy.


So all of my acro (instruction and solo) was done in a Super Decathlon with a little bit in a Citabria. Then I laid off the acro and bought the RV-8. Knowing myself as I do, I figured maybe one loop or roll and I'd have to stop.

No...I was shocked. I could do acro all day long so long as I didn't whip the plane around hard and fast. The reason, I think, is the bubble canopy. I felt enclosed in the Decathlon and that helped to generate/exacerbate the "my ear says I'm rolling but my eyes say I'm not" problem.

In the bubble I'm always looking outside and there's no enclosed feeling.

Stick with it. You are not the only one that has had to deal with this by a long shot.

Do not feel ashamed. Happens to the very best. Just don't quit. Do not be afraid to stop RIGHT NOW if you are getting close - even if you are paying for instruction.

Be assured you will make it.

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

Hints of keeping your stomach under control doing aerobatics:
* Start and stop all maneuvers smoothly. Some instructors like to slam the stick to get crisp starts and stops like airshow pilots, but that's really hard to take and not necessary for fun aerobatics;
* As much as possible, have your eyes (not necessarily your head) along the axis of rotation of the airplane;
* Try not to turn you head under G loads, or if you do (like going from looking forward to watching the wing tip during a loop), turn your head slowly and no more than necessary;
* Do the G tensing maneuvers, even if it's only a few Gs.

Smooth flying, smooth stomach. Rough flying...

Ed

[swordtail]

Thanks guys for all the input on this subject. I feel that ms is getting worse the older I get. I went through extensive medical testing this last August to make sure that the problem was only in my head and not a symptom of another illness.
The combination of stress and optic distortion even gets me sick on smooth night flights although it's a different feeling of sick, no headache.
I can't help myself from going back for more airsickness! I have found that I have to fly often to keep it in check. It's reassuring to see that I'm not alone in the battle.

Stan

[lucaperazzolli]

I'm instructing a friend in his RV-8 and he has the same symptoms.

Obviously taking the controls is a must.

RVs are very sensitive in the pitch controls, we're working on this and it runs.

Keep practice, and don't give up !

[bret]

Observations from the boat, one time.....I took the fam and friends out to sea in a small boat, all was good while we were under way bow going up and down, everyone was fine then we stopped to fish, now there was 3 axis stuff going on and It was a chain reaction I was telling everyone to feed the fish and stop puking in my boat!, wife did not like that comment at all and got mad at me...... WHAT?

[Canadian_JOY]

An earlier poster mentioned smells as a trigger... Oh boy, was he right on the money!

A couple of years ago I had a friend offer to take me on a lapping event at the local race track. Great fun! That is, until somebody ahead of us had some serious brake problems. We drove through his cloud of brake smoke and I was almost instantly ill. I've never been able to tolerate the smell of burning brakes. I've got a reasonably good stomach but wow was my reaction to that brake odour instant and negative.

My wife has always had an uneasy stomach for flying. Slowly building up her confidence through smooth sunset flights has really helped her. Last time she went flying with me she wanted me to turn around some scenery on the ground. I managed 45 degrees of bank quite easily and she didn't even notice. Got up to 60 degrees with a slow roll-in, and again she didn't notice. We talked about it when we got back home and she was amazed that such steep turns had gone literally unnoticed because she was so intently focused on looking down the wing at the item on the ground. Pretty cool to see how she has adapted over time.

[Davea320]

Got my PPL in college then headed to UPT with the Air Force. Got queasy early on taking lessons and getting rides from recruiters and friends but no upchuck. Fast forward to UPT and got sick on every ride. Washed out after about 10 hours in the T-37 due to airsickness. Man was that a bad day.

Two years later still had the flying bug and decided to get checked out and rent an airplane for fun. Long story short, did the whole CFI thing and commuter flying to get an airline job. 25 years and 18,000 hours later haven?t been sick in an airplane since UPT.

As all have said, take it easy. Don?t try and do too much and when you do feel sick, stop the maneuver, find some smooth air or just get on the ground. It just takes some patience and persistence. Don?t let anyone tell you it?s not manly or you need to be ashamed. It?s just your sensitive inner ear. I just tell my wife it?s made me comfortable with my sensitive side.

To this day the smell of jet fuel or exhaust takes me right back to those UPT days, but thankfully doesn?t make me sick. But I know if I go up in a small plane and the pilot wants to try and make me sick I?ll bet he can. Just a matter of getting used to it. This too shall pass.

Dave

[Finley Atherton]

I have no medical training but this is my experience.

I have been flying since the mid 1970's but went through a period a few years back when I would sometimes feel mildly nauseous when not flying and would get very nauseous when flying. I was doing an IFR rating at the time and was considering giving it up. Went to my doctor and came back positive for helicobacter pylori (the bacteria that causes stomach ulcers). Took the prescribed antibiotics and the nausea went away. The bacteria is common with about 40% of people over 40 years infected. It affects people differently with most having no obvious symptoms. Personally I know two others that had a similar experience to me.

Also half a Quells worked for me.

YMMV

Fin 9A
Australia (Guyra)