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01-15-2018, 03:39 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt
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$1222.86
Clearly I am in the wrong business.
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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01-15-2018, 03:48 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BC
Posts: 1,674
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I bought one on Ebay for under $100 when building the RV. Also bought a new $30 crimper from B & C. The cheaper one was easier to use and made great crimps (except the for strain relief part but that's easily crimped with a second step). This became my go-to crimper.
Bevan
__________________
RV7A Flying since 2015
O-360-A1F6 (parallel valve) 180HP
Dual P-mags
Precision F.I. with AP purge valve
Vinyl Wrapped Exterior
Grand Rapids EFIS
Located in western Canada
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01-15-2018, 07:14 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In New Braunfels, ist das Leben schön!
Posts: 871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevan
I bought one on Ebay for under $100 when building the RV.
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Bought 2 around $100 each on EBay as recommended by Knuckles. Never had to redo a crimp that used it.
__________________
Larry New
RV-7A - Built, flying 900+ hrs
RV-10 - Built, flying 2.9 hrs
??? - RV-12, Subsonex
48 States in 7 Days!
VAF Paid - Annual Autodraft
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01-15-2018, 09:37 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH
$1222.86
Clearly I am in the wrong business.
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You missed the price of the second one he posted for 26-20 gauge.
$2939.73
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01-16-2018, 12:54 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: bellingham, wa
Posts: 202
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Larry;
Like I said, each of us has to be comfortable with what we built on a dark and stormy night. I won't try to tell anyone what that is for them, I can only answer it for myself.
In about 2 months I get my brand X QB kit (Bearhawk) delivered to my shop. It will be a very simple, day VFR airplane, with 1 EFIS, and an IPAD. If someone wanted to argue with me about complicating my electrical system for the little benefit of EFI over Bendix FI and dual Pmags, I would be hard pressed to come up with a rational explanation. Mech FI and dual Pmags would give me most of the benefits, and the airplane still works if the electrical system dies. I guess I could argue that reliable starting for me is as important as continuing to run for out and back into the backcountry.
But in reality, EFI is my comfort zone. I have a lot of experience with it in cars and motorcycles, and am completely confident in it if installed correctly. Why not just build my own and save $5000? I could, but SDS (and a couple of others) have a couple of nice features that I can see. And they have many dozens (probably hundreds) of unseen "lessons learned" from their installs in aircraft, and input from their very knowledgable customers. That extra money for that experience, for me, is priceless, as it is my little pink body riding in the airplane. I would rather pay them to learn from their lessons and mistakes, than repeat them myself.
I didn't mind spending the extra money for a QB kit. I choked a bit paying the price of a new Honda Accord for a rebuilt io-540. I will choke a bit more when I pay the price of a nice used Accord for a CS prop. Paying the extra for an EFI might be the easiest "extra" money I spend, because it makes me more comfortable flying with it.
Lots of opinions. Mostly I am on VAF to learn, which I have learned a lot. I have more questions than answers. But I have lots of Boeing, Airbus, and McD time. After all that time, I would prefer if Honda or Toyota made my airplane.
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01-16-2018, 05:09 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: houston, texas
Posts: 900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svyolo
Larry;
Like I said, each of us has to be comfortable with what we built on a dark and stormy night. I won't try to tell anyone what that is for them, I can only answer it for myself.
In about 2 months I get my brand X QB kit (Bearhawk) delivered to my shop. It will be a very simple, day VFR airplane, with 1 EFIS, and an IPAD. If someone wanted to argue with me about complicating my electrical system for the little benefit of EFI over Bendix FI and dual Pmags, I would be hard pressed to come up with a rational explanation. Mech FI and dual Pmags would give me most of the benefits, and the airplane still works if the electrical system dies. I guess I could argue that reliable starting for me is as important as continuing to run for out and back into the backcountry.
But in reality, EFI is my comfort zone. I have a lot of experience with it in cars and motorcycles, and am completely confident in it if installed correctly. Why not just build my own and save $5000? I could, but SDS (and a couple of others) have a couple of nice features that I can see. And they have many dozens (probably hundreds) of unseen "lessons learned" from their installs in aircraft, and input from their very knowledgable customers. That extra money for that experience, for me, is priceless, as it is my little pink body riding in the airplane. I would rather pay them to learn from their lessons and mistakes, than repeat them myself.
I didn't mind spending the extra money for a QB kit. I choked a bit paying the price of a new Honda Accord for a rebuilt io-540. I will choke a bit more when I pay the price of a nice used Accord for a CS prop. Paying the extra for an EFI might be the easiest "extra" money I spend, because it makes me more comfortable flying with it.
Lots of opinions. Mostly I am on VAF to learn, which I have learned a lot. I have more questions than answers. But I have lots of Boeing, Airbus, and McD time. After all that time, I would prefer if Honda or Toyota made my airplane.
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We agreed with this thought, after looking at some 60-70 years of history behind making it simple and reliable, We went with the same system that Conti has used for many years on the IO-470, 520 engines in many good long lived aircraft that bring you home every flight in all kinds of weather even if you don't save a little fuel over another system. I talked to AFS a month or so ago and was told that it was still being made and put out under the TITAN name. We also stay with two Slick mags for the same reason.
Just our two cents, Yours, R.E.A. III # 80888
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01-16-2018, 05:48 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: X35 - Ocala, FL
Posts: 3,679
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Two points that have not been discussed are:
1. Our typical aircraft engine, air cooled (runs a lot hotter), boxer style and huge displacement engines running high power at relatively low rpm have a huge amount of vibration compared to a typical automotive engine. This is hard on fuel systems, ignition systems and electrical systems.
2. As my grandpa used to say, “When your car engine quits, there you is. When your airplane engine quits, where is you?!”
An after thought, but we have a Cessna 150 and a Cessna 152, each with around 14,000 hours running completely on carbs and mags. THis would equate to roughly 1.4-1.5 million miles each. Engine overhauls and component overhauls aside, that does say a whole lot of something for the old technology.
__________________
Jesse Saint
Last edited by Jesse : 01-16-2018 at 06:04 AM.
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01-16-2018, 06:59 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: bellingham, wa
Posts: 202
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No argument, or disrespect, for your choice, and comfort zone.
Fair winds, and following seas, to all.
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01-16-2018, 07:07 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylor
You missed the price of the second one he posted for 26-20 gauge. $2939.73
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All kidding aside, they are beautiful tools, yes, they can be bought used, and I'm absolutely sure they will make PIDG terminations which meet specification.
Walt, tell us about the insulation adjustment. Four positions; is it necessary to change the setting when switching from 18 to 22 ga?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevan
I bought one on Ebay for under $100 when building the RV. Also bought a new $30 crimper from B & C. The cheaper one was easier to use and made great crimps (except the for strain relief part but that's easily crimped with a second step). This became my go-to crimper.
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I assume this one?
http://www.bandc.aero/pidgstylecrimptool.aspx
Can you describe the issue with strain relief?
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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01-16-2018, 07:36 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,029
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I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for a moment and suggest that one should not discount human error, either.
[DA]To wit, how many good airplanes have been put in the dirt because the pilot mismanaged some aspect of that "simple" mechanical system? One of the two C150s I trained in met its end a month after my checkride (in that airplane) because the student and instructor forgot the carb heat. How many other "loss of power" accidents over the past decades could we attribute to lack of carb heat or an improper mixture setting?
And beyond that, how many good engines have been doomed to early overhauls, how many millions of gallons of gas have been wasted, because the crude mixture adjustment was set incorrectly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH
Debating the reliability of "electronics" or mechanical devices" is pointless. The real questions are...
1. The reliability of each individual component, as installed.
2. The reliability of any required supporting system(s).
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I'd argue that one of the "supporting systems" in any engine installation is the biological controller.
Or to look at it another way, we all exhort each other to "keep it simple". But what is "simple"? Is it... simple to fabricate? Simple to assemble? Simple to understand? Or is it simple to use? A slide rule is incredibly simple, from a mechanical standpoint. But a $10 scientific calculator from Wally world, while incredibly complex, is dead-simple to use by comparison. [/DA]
Anyway, there's no good way to really analyze one vs. the other, especially given sample sizes and all the variables present (in system design, component selection, and workmanship) in experimental installations. I'd even go so far as to say that this plus piloting habits are going to be far more influential on "reliability" than the overall approach to fuel and spark delivery.
In the end, 98% of us are going to choose the approach that fits our pre-existing biases and experience, and then rationalize it to everyone else
(Disclaimer: I'm planning for an SDS EFI install, because reasons)
__________________
RV-7ER - finishing kit and systems installation
There are two kinds of fool in the world. The first says "this is old, and therefore good"; the second says "this is new, and therefore better".
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