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  #21  
Old 01-08-2018, 08:24 PM
romaja romaja is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Portland Oregon Area
Posts: 81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizard Lips View Post
I am seriously considering building an RV-10 Quick Build. However I have no building experience. I have a good mechanical background, such as my MOS in the Army was Aircraft Mechanic where I cared for L-19's, L-20's, L-23's, YL-26 and various and sundry other "experimental" aircraft. (I was assigned to the Army Aviation Test Board for 3 years). I recently attended a course in California to obtain a Light Sport Repairman certificate and am certified to conduct repairs and inspections on Light Sport aircraft.

My concern is my lack of experience in building an aircraft. Built and flew large scale RC model aircraft (10 hp engines, etc) for many years, but that's models, not full scale aircraft. I hold a Commercial Pilot's license with Instrument, Multi-Engine and Flight Instructor ratings so I have a fairly good understanding of how an airplane flies.

I just worry about jumping off into the deep with a large, expensive project and wondered what you would do if you were in my shoes. Recently got married to a wonderful woman who is actually encouraging me to start the project so home support will not be a problem. Did I mention that I am 83 years old, in perfect health and plan to be around for a long time to come?
Similar ratings as you. I took early retirement from the airlines. I had the same concerns as you. I decided to build a Rans S-20 Raven QB. It took me 11 months and 1200 hours. It was a very enjoyable project and you will be proud of what you create.
It has been 2.5 years and I have the bug again to build. Most likey a -14. The support I see on this forum is refreshing and will go a long way in helping you reach your goal of a completed aircraft.

Good luck!!!!
Jim
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  #22  
Old 01-08-2018, 10:11 PM
mbauer mbauer is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Nikiski, AK
Posts: 413
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For me it was an easy choice.

Due to an illness and treatment, had to take lots of paperwork into the AME when I applied for a medical last year.

I'm at 60-y/o and didn't want to wait years to fly again, once I passed the Class III in December, I bought a flying RV-6.

Don't know how old you are, but everyone takes health for granted, just recently read a thread where a builder finally completed his build. http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=156111

Would like to build a RV-8 myself, but flying is flying!

Best regards,
Mike Bauer
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  #23  
Old 01-09-2018, 12:13 PM
Oliver Oliver is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizard Lips View Post
I am seriously considering building an RV-10 Quick Build.

[...}

I just worry about jumping off into the deep with a large, expensive project and wondered what you would do if you were in my shoes. Recently got married to a wonderful woman who is actually encouraging me to start the project so home support will not be a problem. Did I mention that I am 83 years old, in perfect health and plan to be around for a long time to come?
Keep in mind, that this is a forum for Van's enthusiasts and therefore expect rather enthusiastic responses. Joining an EAA chapter and talking with people who bought RV kits will probably give you a better idea of the pros and cons.

Particularly the RV-10 is a LOT of work. A slow build kit with paint, glass cockpit, autopilot, pre-fabricated interior, head-scratching and no significant modifications from the plans, should take around 2500 - 3500 hours to complete. Going quick build will certainly save quite a few hundred hours, maybe around 500 or so.

Also keep in mind, that Van's uses almost exclusively solid rivets for the RV-10, even in areas that are hard to access. Particularly with the sometimes bulky components of the RV-10, it is in my opinion desirable to have a second person available to help with riveting.

If you're looking for such a big project and have somebody available to help with riveting, a RV-10 is certainly a good choice.

If you don't need four seats and want something that is easier and faster to build by a single person and if you are willing to give up some speed, it might be worthwhile to also have a look at the RV-12: LSA (no medical concerns), pulled rivets and highly prefabricated.
Looking outside the Van's box, I was really impressed by the construction and kit quality of the also all pulled rivet Sling 2 and 4 kits, as well as the new Rans S-21. The S-21 is actually the plane we are considering to build next as it is all metal, projected to cruise at 135 kts, still capable of landing on backcountry airstrips and as it offers a big baggage area and a useful load of close to 1,000 lbs. Sling, and I believe Rans as well, also use a more modern process to cut the metal parts, what makes deburring a breeze or even unneeded. Our RV-10 kit appears pretty crude in comparison, I estimate we spent almost a third of the empennage build time on deburring, what was not much fun.

I also have quite a bit of personal experience with building a Zenith CH750 that was suggested above: In 450 hours one might be able to build the airframe, without paint and without any modifications. With paint, avionics, interior, engine installation, etc. 1,000 - 1,500 hours should be a more realistic estimate for the complete plane and similar to a Kitfox, Rans S-20, S-21, RV-12, etc..

Oliver
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* RV-10 kit on hold

Last edited by Oliver : 01-09-2018 at 12:16 PM.
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  #24  
Old 01-10-2018, 10:08 AM
Bill Boyd's Avatar
Bill Boyd Bill Boyd is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Landing field "12VA"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lndwarrior View Post
First off, I have no doubt you would be more than capable of building the airplane.

Something to consider is the enormous amount of time it takes. This will be time you will not be spending with your wife. Not only is it the time you spend building but is the time you spend researching and ordering parts and learning how to do the next part of the construction. So it's not just the building part but all the other time of your day that is required to complete an aircraft.

This is a huge time commitment away from the person you love. Even if she helps you, your mind will be elsewhere trying to figure out the next step.

If it is the challenge of building a plane that excites you and you're not trying to finish it quickly, you may be able to have both the time with your new wife and some time to work on your plane.

If your goal is to try to finish it 2 or 3 or 4 years then there will be little time left over for other things. Like spending time with your wife.

If I had to do it all over again I probably wouldn't. I treasure the time I have to share with my wife. It's far more important than building an airplane.
I keep this tab open on my browser, because every time I read this particular post it hits me with a fresh profoundness.

I agree with every line, every word. It's just a step below scripture for me - seemingly inerrant, inspired, and profitable to take to heart.

Having seen one VAF'er recently divest himself via our classifieds of all things aviation in order to save himself from what had become unbalanced in his life, I take these words as a sober reminder of the potential cost if this wonderful pursuit isn't approached with fear and trembling by those of us who have a loyalty and responsibility to our families - loved ones who very well may not share our passion for it.

At age 61, this thread has inspired me to reset my expectations on a completion date for the RV-10, and reframe my ideas of how it will be used because of how old we will all be by the time the family wagon is in service. My bride knew 4 years ago when we married that I had an airplane in the backyard that I built in my garage, but she wasn't altogether on board with me doing another, regardless of the 4 seat utility. This has been a nuanced dance not without its "moments." Taking Gary's words to heart would've made for fewer of those, to be sure.

I hope I'm preaching to the choir, but let's keep our priorities straight and our families first even as we indulge in one of the most addicting pass-times I've ever known.
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Hop-Along Aerodrome (12VA)
RV-6A - N30YD - Built '98 / sold '20
RV-10 - N130YD reserved - under construction

donating monthly to the VAF - thanks, Doug
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  #25  
Old 01-14-2018, 08:45 AM
OldTee OldTee is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Centrerville, MD
Posts: 13
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Years ago, like 25, I retired from selling computers and went to work at a local airport fixing GA aircraft. I had gotten my A&P certificate doing part time work years before I retired. During that work period before retirement I was in a partnership on a wrecked Arrow that took years to reconstruct. Learned to overhaul engines and did 7 before I gave it all up. One of my regrets in life was not buying and building a Vans kit. I did a survey of myself back then and decided I was more of a mechanic than a builder. I was so wrong. Today, I would do it, but at 80 my shoe laces are out of reach, much less the work of building.
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  #26  
Old 01-14-2018, 09:22 AM
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bkervaski bkervaski is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 1,643
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Quote:
First off, I have no doubt you would be more than capable of building the airplane.

Something to consider is the enormous amount of time it takes. This will be time you will not be spending with your wife. Not only is it the time you spend building but is the time you spend researching and ordering parts and learning how to do the next part of the construction. So it's not just the building part but all the other time of your day that is required to complete an aircraft.

This is a huge time commitment away from the person you love. Even if she helps you, your mind will be elsewhere trying to figure out the next step.

If it is the challenge of building a plane that excites you and you're not trying to finish it quickly, you may be able to have both the time with your new wife and some time to work on your plane.

If your goal is to try to finish it 2 or 3 or 4 years then there will be little time left over for other things. Like spending time with your wife.

If I had to do it all over again I probably wouldn't. I treasure the time I have to share with my wife. It's far more important than building an airplane.
I am lucky in this regard ... my fiance is building with me, couldn't do it without her, she loves it. How and why she puts up with me I'll never understand.
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  #27  
Old 01-14-2018, 07:46 PM
Jerry Cochran's Avatar
Jerry Cochran Jerry Cochran is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sherwood, Oregon
Posts: 981
Default I built a gorgeous RV 6a....

....that took 6 yrs to build and loved flying and hearing it on takeoff at 2600
R's and straight pipes. Then sold it for money for another one, not to build again but to buy a anupgraded 7

If I wanted anther RV it would be bought, not built...When I started 16yrs ago there were 3000 RV's flying, now there are 10,000, and lots for sale mostly at good prices especially if the panel has glass over 7 years old. Those older glass setups stiil are effective doncha know?

Just sayin'

Jerry

Last edited by Jerry Cochran : 01-14-2018 at 07:53 PM. Reason: Clarity
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  #28  
Old 01-15-2018, 05:18 PM
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N333M N333M is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: central Il
Posts: 73
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Mr Lips,
I have recently considered this question myself, being a builder of 5 aircraft, none of them RV's, since 1980. I know the proud feeling one gets when someone asks on a ramp at an airfield, "Did you build it?" and you get to say yes.
The RV bug bit me about two years ago, deciding I had to have one. I was 60 at the time. Wrestled with the same question because I KNOW I enjoy building, but, I enjoy flying too. A year and a half ago, I found a RV9A, for sale with 54 hours on the clock..hmmm I thought, must be something wrong with it. And it was a long way from me. Looked nice in the pics tho..
Upon studying it, and looking up the N number, I discovered its airworthy certificate had been issued several year ago. How could this nice looking bird get built and not flown? I asked myself. after much consternation, I decided to contact the owner, about a year ago this month. Made arrangements to go have a look at it. It seems it was for not for sale by the builder, but by a close friend of the his. After inspecting the aircraft, and judging it was indeed in every way brand new, and a good build, we began haggleing on the price. We did not come to terms right away, and I had a motel for the night, and agreed to meet in the morning. I also asked for the builders phone number, and contacted him.
I had a great conversation with the builder, and I could tell he was proud of his creation. Finally I said, " Why are you getting rid of this aircraft?"
He then told me..
" Well, to be brutally honest, I waited to long in life. I started building this when I was about 60..took me about 5 years, then, I got sick. Due to my illness, It took me 2 years to get thru the phase 1, but I made it, then, My medical was expired, and it was obvious I was never going to get it back. So, after a while I decide to let it go."
Those words haunted me all night in that motel room, particularly since I was 61 at the time. and the next morning, I called my wife and told her I was going to buy it today, and I did.
I am not going to pussyfoot around your age, your clock is winding down my friend. Time waits for no man.

So, here is what I will contribute to your question. Practically an elaboration on what Mel said.
If you WANT to build an airplane, and you know you enjoy building..then build one. BUT,
If what you really want is Fly an RV, consider life's plans dont always follow ours, and go buy one! And regardless of how long you are able to fly, you will have had 4 or 5 years longer enjoying it in the skies.
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  #29  
Old 01-27-2018, 10:22 AM
Lizard Lips Lizard Lips is offline
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Longview, Texas
Posts: 79
Default To Build or Not-to-Build?

First, I want to thank all of you for your comments. Every one of them has been helpful.

Fortunately, I am blessed with the best of both worlds: My sweet wife is my biggest supporter. She has been my inspiration and my guiding light. I have a little Light Sport Arion Lightning (120 k cruise) that we took on our honeymoon and we fly together as often as we can. She loves to fly.

I am currently building a 24' x 30' shop building behind our house so it will be a 30 second walk to the shop to work on the plane. This should maximize my productivity. Being retired also helps with my availability.

We plan to keep the Lightning until my project is complete and then sell it. So at least when we get the urge to fly, or travel, the Lightning is only 20 minutes away.

Finally, I have downsized my expectations! Being realistic about my age, the RV-10 is a huge and expensive project so I have settled on the smaller, cheaper, easier to build RV-14 QB. Not a lot smaller, cheaper and easier but it should go together a little quicker.

My wife is already learning how to debur, dimple and rivet so this should be a family fun project. One other thing, my wife is Phillipino and we plan to go to the Phillipines next month to visit her relatives. Unbelievably, the assembly factory for Van's QB kits just happens to be in her home town so I am arranging a guided tour through the factory to observe how they put these wonderful kits together. I'l try to get lots of photos (if they will allow me) and post them when we get back.
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  #30  
Old 01-27-2018, 11:09 AM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Location: LSGY
Posts: 3,198
Default QB factory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizard Lips View Post
... Unbelievably, the assembly factory for Van's QB kits just happens to be in her home town so I am arranging a guided tour through the factory to observe how they put these wonderful kits together. I'l try to get lots of photos (if they will allow me) and post them when we get back.
That would be very cool. I have a QB, and I am really impressed with the quality. I'm sure if they will let you hang out a while, you will learn a lot from them. There are some real craftsman on that team.
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