VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #1  
Old 01-04-2018, 06:20 PM
dwschaefer's Avatar
dwschaefer dwschaefer is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 68
Default De-Plane

So this is a very difficult post to write and I'm asking for constructive thoughts on what to do next...it's somewhat overwhelming.

I'm giving serious thought to no longer owning my plane. I'm torn how to proceed. I concerned about the potential future liability from selling it (I guess all experimental builders are), I'm wondering about parting it out maybe. Not sure what to do and how to proceed, but I'm sure I will get some good ideas from the group.

Additionally, I've got a hanger full of construction tools, rivets, fasteners, benches, tools, etc.etc. all the stuff required to build and take care of an RV-6A. That I need to liquidate.

What are some of your thoughts? I appreciate them.

Thanks...

DWS
N142DS RV6-A
www.n142ds.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-04-2018, 06:48 PM
Ironflight's Avatar
Ironflight Ironflight is offline
VAF Moderator / Line Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
Default

One thought for you - the EAA has studied the issue of liability to builders towards subsequent owners, and has yet to find a successful lawsuit filed against a builder by a subsequent owner (or their estate). So your thought that "All experimental owners are [worried about liability]" is not necessarily true. Your personal comfort will decide of course, but history is on the side of those that sell their airplanes and get the full value out of them as aircraft.
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-04-2018, 06:56 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
Default

What Paul said!

AND if you do decide to "part it out", make sure the parts are to be used on other aircraft and not to "rebuild that aircraft".
The purchaser must understand that if that aircraft is "rebuilt", the original builder's name must remain on the data plate and registration.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-04-2018, 07:47 PM
Rallylancer122 Rallylancer122 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oconto, WI
Posts: 156
Default

Most law suits go where the money is. If you have enough money to be sue-worthy, then you can probably afford to just park the airplane in the corner and look at it periodically as a loving reminder of good times.

DEM
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-04-2018, 08:20 PM
6 Gun 6 Gun is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 846
Smile plane

Give it to me and I promise in writing me or my family will not sue you.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-05-2018, 12:38 PM
jonweisw jonweisw is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 115
Default

The problem isn't the person buying the airplane; it's their estate, their passenger, or the damage that they inflict on the ground. Also, while there has never been a successful lawsuit, I am pretty sure that the serious ones that were filed necessitated a legal budget that exceeded the value of the plane.

Some people try to sell theirs abroad (I've seen a lot of Brazil). Im not sure whether that diminishes the risk at all but I would be interested in hearing from someone who is knowledgeable on this approach.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-05-2018, 01:06 PM
moosepileit moosepileit is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Floyds Knobs, IN
Posts: 633
Default

I have seen a really bad 2 seat EAB wrongful death suit peripherally. Family of the deceased passenger sued the named builder, the second owner, the third/current owner at time of accident (another pilot was flying at the time of the crash), the local mx shop that probably did the last Cond Insp and the person that did the fabric recovering for the last owner.

It was dismissed within 14 months within the last 10 years. It was a simple pilot error of the deceased pilot to the NTSB.
__________________
RV-6, bought from builder.
O-320, slider, carb, mags, FP
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-05-2018, 02:28 PM
RVbySDI's Avatar
RVbySDI RVbySDI is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,563
Default

I am no lawyer for sure. Given that, if you are really overly concerned about law suits, I think you should give some serious thought to 6gun's comment. I know he was making his statement in jest in hopes you would gladly donate your plane to him. However, on a serious note, if you feel strongly about the fear of law suits, perhaps you should give it to someone. I would bet whoever received it would take great care of it. I also bet their heirs would not even consider suing someone after they had spent many blissful years flying it. To be honest, since you have successfully cheated death for many years in the machine, what really makes you think there would be some catastrophic failure of machine or labor after you sell it?

I am sure many out here have sold airplanes, perhaps more than one. Perhaps one of them may chime in with their experience. My experience, I have sold one experimental aircraft that I built. It has been 11 years now since I sold it. The amount of sleep I have lost worrying about someone suing me over it - 0 seconds. The last time I checked it is still registered with the FAA and flying.

True that you will have to decide what you are willing to deal with but for me, I don't consider this issue even a blip on the radar screen in my life. Perhaps it is because I do NOT have deep pockets to come after. Even if I did, I am not sure I would really feel any differently about it though.

Hope you are able to resolve your issue without having to murder a good machine. They really do have a sole of their own you know!

Live Long and Prosper!

That goes for our beloved machines too!
__________________
RVBYSDI
Steve
RV9A
https://rvwings.com

Live Long And Prosper! 🖖🏻
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-05-2018, 03:09 PM
9GT's Avatar
9GT 9GT is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 1,966
Default

There was a video a few years ago of a guy who took his home-built aircraft, I think it was an RV, to a junk yard and had it demolished to avoid any liability. I can't find it know, but it was pretty depressing watching the crane with a claw tear the thing to pieces.
__________________
David C.
Howell, MI
RV-10: #41686 Under Construction
RV-9A: #90949 Under Construction
RV-10: #40637 Completed/Sold 2016
Cozy MKIV:#656 Completed/Sold 2007
"Donor Exempt" but donated through Dec. 2020
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-05-2018, 03:13 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
Default No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVbySDI View Post
I am no lawyer for sure. Given that, if you are really overly concerned about law suits, I think you should give some serious thought to 6gun's comment.

I also bet their heirs would not even consider suing someone after they had spent many blissful years flying it. To be honest, since you have successfully cheated death for many years in the machine, what really makes you think there would be some catastrophic failure of machine or labor after you sell it?
1. While the new owner might waive his right to a future lawsuit, he cannot, in most (all?) states, waive the rights of others (spouse, children. others) to sue.
2. Take a look at the John Denver accident. Proximate cause: he ran a tank dry while flying low over the ocean, failed to maintain control. His multimillionaire heirs sued everyone in sight: builder, subsequent owner, Aircraft Spruce for parts, etc.. While I believe they settled with some money from ACS or its suppliers, that does not mean the original builder did not suffer a lot of lost sleep or legal expenses.

My advice to the OP: If you have sufficient assets to be a target in a lawsuit, give serious consideration to trashing the airplane. At least you'll sleep at night. OR selling your avionics ("AS IS"), or your engine and prop ("AS IS"), and take a chain saw to the airframe, if that works for you. Talk to a lawyer about how you can "distance" yourself from the airplane, if you do decide to sell it.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:02 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.