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04-27-2007, 09:09 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
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Thanks for the feedback John
As always it is always a pleasure to get your input. I went out to the hangar and pulled the non-sensor mag and brought it home to work on. I have been unable to get the T-100 tool kit but after I cut the grass tomorrow I'm going to go into it as far as I can with standard tools and make some if necessary. The common opinion I got out of Unison is the points probably need cleaning. Well we will see. Aircraft Scruce gave me a point kit price of ~$42 but they have to special order them. I got the L-1500 Master Manual by Fedex today and there is some good information in it and I can start down the distributer list and see if I can get needed items in a short time. I am not optimistic but we press on until we can't go anymore. The race at Taylor, Texas on May 19 looms large. If everything goes south I may be able to get some straight mags and set it up with them - it's not like I was a big threat anyway. The thrill of the race is the big thing for me.
I may switch to Lightspeed but that is a "slippery slope" as they say that leads to trashing the whole initial system design. I have been reading the backup alternator in the vacuum pump hole, etc. which could be organized into a reliable system but I sure hate to start over. My current impression is the LASAR system will probably not be in my plane next year ... barring some change in the way this train is going. I guess I can still hope but experience tells me I am going to have to make changes. How much of the Lightspeed hype translates into added kts with no other changes? Smoothness and realtime operating economy, etc. are not that important to me. I really don't want to buy another high power pipe dream.
Bob Axsom
Last edited by Bob Axsom : 04-27-2007 at 09:12 PM.
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04-27-2007, 11:40 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ...
Posts: 2,049
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bob Axsom
How much of the Lightspeed hype translates into added kts with no other changes? Smoothness and realtime operating economy, etc. are not that important to me. I really don't want to buy another high power pipe dream.
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Yet you're poking around with that clunky LASAR?  The slippery slope is the one you're already on!
__________________
Dan Checkoway RV-7
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04-27-2007, 11:45 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
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That's encouraging
Do you have any real information oh great wind.
Bob Axsom
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04-27-2007, 11:54 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ...
Posts: 2,049
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bob Axsom
Do you have any real information oh great wind.
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Nah, just messing with ya. Honestly I'd be surprised if you could MEASURE any difference in performance or economy going from LASAR to Lightspeed (this is just armchair engineering, but I stand by it!).
I do believe a properly installed Lightspeed EI with a fixed crank position sensor (flywheel magnets) is the most bulletproof, reliable ignition system available for aircraft engines (including mags!), but I see your point about having to redesign at this stage of the game.
__________________
Dan Checkoway RV-7
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04-28-2007, 07:17 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO
Posts: 130
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Well, I think Dan is right, below 10K ft anyway, there is no measurable increase in performance. But, at 10K or thereabouts and above, and running LOP with fuel injection, you can increase your miles per gallon numbers. If you read the CAFE reports they presented data showing that advanced timing and LOP are synergistic. At 12,500 I see only 1 kt loss from running 75 degrees rich to running right at peak EGT, yet this is 1 gph less.
The big change I saw when I went from LASAR to the Lightspeed was at lower altitudes, my CHTs dropped 30 degrees, and even 40 in long climbs. I am convinced the LASAR over-advances the timing. This allowed me to close down my air intakes, which then helped in speed a tiny bit. You could get this benefit by using standard mags (fixed timing) as well.
The big draw for me was a total lack of moving parts. I am hoping that will translate to reliablity, but I won't know for another 1000 hours or so.
John
Last edited by Nuisance : 04-28-2007 at 07:20 AM.
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04-28-2007, 01:06 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
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Thanks Guys
I have had no problem with my LASAR system once I set the timing properly never mind its new, supplied by Lycoming on the new ~$20,000 engine run in a test cell and delivered with test data showing everything was OK - it was actually set around 60 degrees ahead of the required 25 degrees cylinder 1 compression stroke top dead center. I do experience the high CHTs mentioned but I can deal with that - I want the extra power. If you hook-up the "not encouraged" CHT connection, the controller will hold down the temperature but Unison tells me in the Master Manual L-1500 that that reduces the power and that also tells me it looses the advertized "up to 8% increase in horsepower" over standard magnetos.
The system LASAR has been very good to me. I will try to sustain it through this season anyway. The current product support from the manufacturer is very ineffective and I'm putting it kindly. In 2004 it was outstanding! To summarize the T-100 tool kit is not available from the sources I have tried - Unison, API and Aircraft Spruce - they are on indefinite backorder and Aircraft Spruce has four customers already waiting for theirs. The K3640 contact point kit requires special order and aircraft spruce said there is a 60 day lead time - API said they would have to special order also and they had no idea what the lead time would be. The 4770 non-sensor magneto in listed in the price list in the brand new subscripton supplied L-1500 Master Manual as $738 but the page was last updated in March 2006 and two calls to Aircraft Spruce for current price have resulted in "I'll get back to you on that" promises that were not kept. Anybody that has been in any kind of business exposure can recognize this as a bad situation. I do not believe that it is a bad system - quite the opposite - but my experience in the last few days has me convienced that owners are going to have to be very independently capable in order to sustain their LASAR Systems. For now I will try to do just that but in time I'm now looking at standard mags for my airplane.
Bob Axsom
Last edited by Bob Axsom : 04-28-2007 at 01:09 PM.
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04-28-2007, 08:23 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
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The Points Are Good
Inspection of the points with a good magnifying glass reveals proper function and brand new looking contact surfaces. They are not the problem.
Bob Axsom
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04-28-2007, 11:43 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 250
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Learning the Lasar
I find this thread interesting as I have the Lasar Mag on the left and Electroair on the Right on my IO 360. Today I picked up a little surging at all RPM ranges TOP, idle and mid-range. I am thinking it is an ignition problem. Its like something is cutting out or timing is changing every four seconds then returning. Its not rough, you just feel a little deceleration and tone difference. I suppose it could be air in the fuel lines also. Spark or fuel .......... the always dreaded question. I guess thats why I drive a diesel truck, to avoid this quandary.
I tried a little lean of peak operations, but it would begin getting rough shortly after peak and the Lasar Mag would dropout to point operation. The Lasar mag has always seemed like it was just along for the ride. I have found Electroair to be very responsive and I saw mike, the new owner, at Sun N Fun. Electroair is a good system and I would be surprised if it is involved in the surging.
__________________
RV8 "Gladder's Gal" #80707
Superior IO360 B1B 193 HP, Whirlwind 151-69"
IFR-Dual Cheltons, Crossbow NAV 425EX
Garmin 430/SL30/330 Mode-S w/ traffic
Ryan 9900B TCAS, WSI AV300, S-Tec 55X
Searey 80 HP
Last edited by Flyrod : 04-28-2007 at 11:46 PM.
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04-29-2007, 04:18 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 2,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeff B
Interesting thread.... Several weeks after ordering my engine with LASAR mags, I had stopped by John Huft's hangar (not sure if you remember John, a long time ago), and John had both LASAR mags in a box and said "I'm done with that system, it's junk". I thought great, just what I needed, an ignition system that's broken before I even un-boxed it.
Fast forward 4 years, the system has operated flawlessly on my 7 with 287 hrs. I have modified my take off procedure to compensate for the higher CHT's. After initial climb out, I'll enrich the mixture to keep the CHT's at around 350, no more than 360 then lean back out for cruise. I'll continue to knock on wood and hope the system remains "reliable". That was my reason for the purchase to begin with, I thought it was a "reliable system".
Jeff B RV7
www.westerncoloradotrade.net
EAA Tech Counselor - CFII/MEI - Transition Training
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The Lasar system does not advance the timing until 15 minutes after initial power up. I don't recall exactly, but it either doesn't advance at all or minimally during this period. This was to keep the climb temps manageable. I never did get an exact timing map for the system. I did wait until this time runs out to fine tune the leaning.
__________________
Alex Peterson
RV6A N66AP 1700+ hours
KADC, Wadena, MN
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04-29-2007, 06:08 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO
Posts: 130
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeff B
Interesting thread.... Several weeks after ordering my engine with LASAR mags, I had stopped by John Huft's hangar (not sure if you remember John, a long time ago), and John had both LASAR mags in a box and said "I'm done with that system, it's junk". I thought great, just what I needed, an ignition system that's broken before I even un-boxed it.
Fast forward 4 years, the system has operated flawlessly on my 7 with 287 hrs. I have modified my take off procedure to compensate for the higher CHT's. After initial climb out, I'll enrich the mixture to keep the CHT's at around 350, no more than 360 then lean back out for cruise. I'll continue to knock on wood and hope the system remains "reliable". That was my reason for the purchase to begin with, I thought it was a "reliable system".
Jeff B RV7
www.westerncoloradotrade.net
EAA Tech Counselor - CFII/MEI - Transition Training
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HI Jeff
I sure do remember that conversation...very embarrasing to be badmouthing the system and then you say you have a brand new one.
I sure hope it continues to work for you.
John
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