SDS/ EFII Support

[jump4way]

Originally Posted by Toobuilder

Robert,

I?ve been to your shop and you gave me the nickel tour. This was a couple of years ago before I?d even heard of SDS, and Ross was just some ?Subaru guy? on a forum? So you might appreciate some perspective from a ?lost opportunity?. You machine some nice shiny stuff and you are personable. When it comes to technical content however, you gave me pause. Some of your ideas just didn?t click with me. Your ?backwards? fuel nozzles and your bus manager device, for example. And more importantly, you did a very poor job articulating the technical aspects of ?your? ECU. In the time since, your unfamiliarity with the ECU makes perfect sense, as you simply resold some one else?s technology. You didn?t have to know how it worked ? you?re just the middleman. In short, I left your shop impressed with the possibilities, but wary of your execution.

So Ross comes along with CPI and since I was tired of waiting for the 6 cyl P-mag, I take a leap of faith. Turns out he knows EXACTLY what his stuff does, and he doesn?t have to sugar coat it. Based on that one excellent product, I started looking at his EFI stuff and low and behold, you ALSO selected his product to base your business on. Looks like you and me both recognize a winner when we see one.

So frankly, you had the opportunity to have me as a customer but couldn?t close. Your loss. I wish you the best of luck, because we consumers need you vendors to compete. I only hope that you understand your new supplier?s ECU better than your last one, because as a brand new, unknown product with zero track record, you are bound to have some tough questions from potential customers. Tell them the straight scoop, understand the technical side, and don?t BS anyone. In other words, learn from Ross. This obvious "sour grapes" post above is not a good sign.

My experience has completely mirrored your experience however I don?t think I could have possibly articulated it quite as well. Well said.

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by rcpaisley

As Ross infers, the weakest link in our system was always the SDS parts.
Their new "features", like most of the parts they supply never passed our requirements for value, function, and safety. This is well known to people who are familiar with SDS components.

The SDS salesman is very good at promoting their products with his thousands of Internet posts. Even with that, they never had any measurable penetration into this market until we made a reliable, well engineered kit using their ECU in 2007. We have over 400 installations now worldwide on experimental aircraft. The SDS salesman would like to say these are SDS installations. However, they are EFII systems with SDS ECUs. This is something very different from SDS kits - so don't be fooled by the hype.

Fortunately, this is all in the past now.
http://www.flyefii.com/system-32/
The EFII System32 components will be available soon - thankfully!

Robert

I'm not interesting in a boxing match here but I'd ask you qualify your statements above with facts rather than emotion. I'm not sure where you think I inferred SDS parts were inferior somehow?

Dave Anders, Rusty Crawford, Josh Pepperd, Andy Findlay, Michael Robinson and Ronnie Smith all considered EFII or actually flew with it but now all fly with SDS along with many hundreds of others. Each one of these guys is rather discerning on what goes into their aircraft.

Our clients love the new features you casually dismiss here but have now incorporated into your new system. These features work as designed as many who have been flying them will attest. You've seen the posts here on VAF yourself. It was your decision to offer "dumbed down" systems to your clients which made them migrate over to SDS while you worked on your new system which still has not even flown yet.

At this time, we've supplied over 1850 ECUs and systems for aviation. Subtract the 400 ECUs you purchased in the last few years and that leaves 1250 which we sold without your help. I'll let the rest of our track record speak for itself.

In any case, I am eagerly awaiting your responses to Dan's questions.

[Tomcat RV4]

As a long time race car builder an 1st time airpane builder,I was pleasantly shocked with tremoundous support and helpful knowledge supplied by ROSS @ SDS!

[rcpaisley]

Most impressive rhetoric,
No one doubts that SDS kits represent the cheapest solution in engine managment.
SDS has pretty much been kicked out of the automotive market.
The electronics are 20 year old out of date designs. The rest of the kit is cheapo on top of cheapo. From poorly designed wire harnesses to cheap fuel pressure regulators to poorly engineered mechanicals to non-airworthy cheap hot rod fuel filters - the list is long. This is how EFII got started. We had to make all of our own system to make an airworthy product. The SDS ECU was the only useful item from them in our opinion (limited as it is).

A great example of how bad the "new" SDS stuff is - two ECUs are required to run together to make the fuel trim work on 6 cyl engines - oops. Mechanical relay boxes are used to make dual ECU setups work. It's really bad.

So, if you're into cheap, and you are enamored by tons of internet rhetoric, Calgary has some great stuff for you.

BS wears thin quickly,
We are so happy to be rid of this vendor. It was an eight year nightmare of work arounds and compromises.

No one (except SDS) knows their products better than we do. We have setup many hundreds of systems. Way more than them for Lyc powered experimental aircraft. No one knows their problems as well as we do. Shedding the SDS burden was a great relief.

And so, onward to newer and better. System32 represents the fullfillment of a ten year wishlist of functionaity. We finally have an engine management system specifically designed for the needs of this market. We are very excited about it as are our customers.
http://www.flyefii.com/system-32/

Robert

[Toobuilder]

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

I'm not interesting in a boxing match here but I'd ask you qualify your statements above with facts rather than emotion. I'm not sure where you think I inferred SDS parts were inferior somehow...

Yes, good points Ross.

Robert, when I was in your shop a couple of years ago you expounded on the virtues of ?your? ECU. Though you didn?t name the company, you spoke highly of its reliability and how it was used in military aviation and automotive applications with years of service, etc. So now you now talk of how it?s the ?weak link? in your system. Which is it? In any case, it sure looks like you were either lying to me 3 years ago or you are lying now. No big deal to me at this point, but you have told that lie to at least 400 of your customers? How do you think that makes them feel? You ?sold? 400 people on the strength of the ECU, and now you say it?s a weak link? That?s pretty sleazy, at best.

I?m also wondering about your marketing differentiation. You have told us in the past that you want your system to be plug and play, no adjustments, and ?just works?. You also in this very thread talk of those features offered by SDS ?don?t meet the value standards?? of your offering ? Yet your new system has copied the SDS features almost one for one! I have to wonder: Do you have a product differentiation plan, or are you just going to ride SDS innovation from here on out?

You have also gone to some lengths to explain how your backwards injection scheme is superior to the conventional systems, yet here you are, abandoning that feature and offering the direct mount injectors ? again, just like SDS. If ?backwards? is technically superior, why abandon it?

In short Robert, we consumers need your company to survive ? but you are not going to do it by badmouthing SDS one day and then copying their stuff the next. We need your product to stand on its own, and we need you to show some integrity by picking a compelling technical strategy and sticking with it.

BTW, let?s not forget about Dan?s questions. You made some pretty sweeping accusations in front of the world, Dan called you on them, and honor pretty much demands that you defend your position.

[Toobuilder]

Originally Posted by rcpaisley

...We are so happy to be rid of this vendor. It was an eight year nightmare of work arounds and compromises...

You sure know how to treat your existing customers! Show some class, for a change!

Originally Posted by rcpaisley

...BS wears thin quickly..

Amen, brother. It only took one visit to your shop.

[SMO]

It's time to close this thread. The type of bashing being done by Paisley has no place on this forum.

[Toobuilder]

Originally Posted by SMO

It's time to close this thread. The type of bashing being done by Paisley has no place on this forum.

Yep, have to agree. Though it's entertaining to watch Robert self destruct in public, the original intent of the thread - SDS will support legacy EFII customers - has been met.

[rvsxer]

An increasing number of our customers here at SteinAir are opting to include SDS or EFII systems into their projects. When I design a panel, I need to make certain all the correct switches and controls are provided, and our panel-build techs need to understand how to wire everything. They differ a little from what we've been used to. Both Ross and Robert have been immensely helpful and are a pleasure to work with.

[DanH]

Originally Posted by Toobuilder

BTW, let’s not forget about Dan’s questions. You made some pretty sweeping accusations in front of the world, Dan called you on them, and honor pretty much demands that you defend your position.

My intent was not to "call 'em out". I think readers really would like to hear a factual explanation of why Robert believes each of his supplied components is better than the SDS-supplied equivalent.