RV-12 and actual IFR......

[RFSchaller]

My OLs allow IFR and night operation if properly equipped. Mine is an ELSA.

[12vaitor]

Originally Posted by Azjulian

I'm just wondering where I could fit a GTN625 now on my 12 and how much work to wire into my G3Xs....

Outfitting the RV-12 for a GTN625 or similar sized certified navigator is not a minor effort. The available panel depth is such the connectors are within an inch of the firewall, which limits mounting options. If you want a heated pitot, there is some work to be done for mounting on a wing not designed for a pitot tube installation. Not sure I would go with the GTN625 for IFR, the GTN650 would get you a second COMM and NAV/ILS/GS capability.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS

[RFSchaller]

I mounted a VOR/GS with 3LMB under my panel on the center line so I can shoot practice approaches. With a pitot static check on my XPDR I am legal for IFR.

[rongawer]

Originally Posted by 12vaitor

Outfitting the RV-12 for a GTN625 or similar sized certified navigator is not a minor effort. The available panel depth is such the connectors are within an inch of the firewall, which limits mounting options. If you want a heated pitot, there is some work to be done for mounting on a wing not designed for a pitot tube installation. Not sure I would go with the GTN625 for IFR, the GTN650 would get you a second COMM and NAV/ILS/GS capability.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS

I installed a GTN625 without too much trouble, as well as a Garmin GAP 260 heated pitot with AOA out in the left wing. It?s pretty straight forward process in my opinion.

I went without the NAV/COM, mainly because it was less than 1/2 the price of the GTN650 and also because the only times I?ve done VOR or ILS approaches anymore is for practice, and I have a GTR20 mounted behind the panel that works well.

If you?re building an airplane for hard IFR, yes, dual COM?s and a NAV radio might be your desires for redundancy, but if you think about what type of IFR flying you might actually do in the -12, one radio and GPS will likely be fine. It allows me to do ?gentleman IFR?, such as approaches down through a marine layer, or go flying on days when there?s multiple cloud layers at altitudes that I want to get through. Although it?s a fairly stable and well equipped airplane, I do not have plans to ?launch off into the clag? for hours of IMC that I would do no problem in my Baron.

[N456TS]

Originally Posted by Mich48041

Why is IFR not allowed for E-LSA?
Assume pilot has a current medical and is IFR rated and current and the plane is IFR equipped.

Originally Posted by Jetguy

E-LSA not allowed | not allowed
Amateur built Equals EAB.

It's been confirmed many, many times now that E-LSAs can fly IFR if equipped per "91.205(d) are installed, operational, and maintained in accordance with the applicable requirements of part 91". There is no dispute. These are settled facts. You're limited by your operating limitations which do grant IFR operation if equipped per 91.205(d).

[RFSchaller]

Bradley,

My 12 was licensed in 2012. Some of the guys are saying the OLs now include the POH by reference. The POH says no IFR flight (not IMC). They may have a problem if their OLs now reference the POH.

Rich

[rongawer]

Originally Posted by RFSchaller

Bradley,

My 12 was licensed in 2012. Some of the guys are saying the OLs now include the POH by reference. The POH says no IFR flight (not IMC). They may have a problem if their OLs now reference the POH.

Rich

That's interesting, because guess what the POH requirements are for experimental aircraft? None. The only required documents are OL's, registration, AW and weight & balance (and possibly a radio operator license if applicable). OL's referencing a non-required document is in itself a problem.

[RFSchaller]

I agree, Ron, but some of the posts in other threads say their OLs referenced the POH. Looks like regulatory creep. I haven?t seen any of the latest OL language, so I can?t vouch for the accuracy of the claim. Maybe Mel, the DAR, can shed light on what the latest guidance is on OL language.

[Mel]

There is indeed some confusion here. Yes the latest operating limitations for ELSA DO reference the AOI:
14. The pilot may only conduct the flight maneuvers authorized in the AOI. (27)

and also later state: 22. Instrument flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in § 91.205(d) are installed, operational, compliant with the performance requirements of, and maintained per the applicable regulations. All maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records and include the following items: Date, work performed, and name and certificate number of the person returning the aircraft to service. (49)

I have sent an email question in to Oklahoma City. Let's see what they say.

BTW, there are quite a few problems with the new 8130.2j Order. We will probably be seeing a revision if not a complete rewrite soon.

[N456TS]

Originally Posted by RFSchaller

They may have a problem if their OLs now reference the POH.

Just as you can modify and equip your aircraft with gear for IFR, you're also able to modify your POH as you wish. Does your panel state "Flights into IMC prohibited"? You're free to change that if you wish. This is experimental aviation. Not bound by Type Certificate. Not bound by ASTM. You're free to modify that E-LSA.