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  #11  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:44 AM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
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Default Powder coat

Quote:
Originally Posted by flion View Post
Rather than prime and paint, I'd suggest you take them to a local powder coater and get them blasted and then re-coated. You'll really like powder coat on your steel pieces and you can even get them done to match your paint scheme instead of the default off-white. I've never had a problem with the pieces from Vans but I've done a few of the bare pieces (steps, for example) and even aluminum fab (you can find pictures of my reworked battery mount somewhere in these forums). I haul a box of parts to my local guy and it usually costs $20. When the nose-gear mod for the -10 came out, I had mine welded in (didn't trust the shim to just sit there in place) and then had the entire engine mount blasted and redone for less than $100 as I recall.
Vans will sell the weldments bare. It adds some time to the order but it's an option.
I ordered my canopy frame parts bare so they can be coated to match.
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  #12  
Old 06-11-2017, 01:09 PM
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Nedimbek Nedimbek is offline
 
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Location: Calgary, Alberta
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I used to manufacture metal railings and get them powdercoated by others for many years. General commercial practice is alkaline wash for degreasing and powdercoat. Some vendors sandblast upon request if they do sandblasting in their premises. Dont expect chemical surface prep such as cromating, phosphating etc. as they are a whole different ball game. If you do require such surface prep as for the process procedures and specs you have to get this done before you send the parts to the powder coating vendor. That was what we had done for many years when I was working in defence industry.
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  #13  
Old 06-16-2017, 02:00 PM
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n82rb n82rb is offline
 
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Location: fort myers fl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas View Post
When you are at the "mercy" of your subcontractors it's a sure sign that you do not have proper written quality control specifications in place to ensure that you get a product that is consistent and always adequate for the application. I contacted Vans years ago when the powder coating on my slider canopy frame delaminated. I asked them what the specification was for the powder coating pretreatment and they said they did not have a written pretreatment specification.

Proper pretreatment/passivation of metals prior to powder coating is costly and it is naive to believe that powder coating subcontractors will not cut corners in this area if they are asked to compete purely on price without a written specification.

Many builders these days are using adhesives to bond their acrylic canopies to their powder coated slider frames and they have absolutely no empirical evidence that the powdercoating supplied by Vans is adequately bonded to the metal underneath or that the metal is properly passivated to prevent corrosion under-creep.
no offense, but paper is paper. jut because you have a spec their is no reason to believe the sub will follow it. we deal with ISO, UL and the rest of the money grabbers on a daily basis, and the spec industry is just that, a way to make a buck. The only way to assure quality is to inspect the parts that you subcontract and inspect the subcontractors operation.

this is exactly why our company does its own powder. on steel if the part does not go from blast or treatment directly into the power booth, oxidation starts, a few hours can make the difference between a good bond and junk.

our parts now go from the blast cabinet to the powder booth in minutes.

the problem with taking your parts to a powder shop is if they are not shooting the color you want right now, they may sit for while until they are shooting that color.

the problem is with vans, the amount of parts they powder coat is rather small (in the big picture) and does not justify the cost of the equipment and labor to do their own powder coat. from what I have seen, their suppliers do a pretty good job, but some parts are sure to get by.

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  #14  
Old 06-17-2017, 08:12 AM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n82rb View Post
no offense, but paper is paper. jut because you have a spec their is no reason to believe the sub will follow it. we deal with ISO, UL and the rest of the money grabbers on a daily basis, and the spec industry is just that, a way to make a buck.
No offence taken. However in my experience it is not an insurmountable problem to get consistent high quality powder coating performed by a subcontractor. You do not have to do your own powder coating to get a quality job. But the first step is to know what type of pretreatment/powdercoating you require and put that specification in writing. The second step is to only call quotations from companies that have the capacity to fulfil the specification.

High quality companies provide high quality pretreatments in-house for various metal substrates and varying environmental conditions. No-one needs to get their pretreatment done by one subbie and then transport the parts to a powdercoater. Larger scale industrial powdercoaters will be able to perform all operations under the one roof in a timely and approved sequence.

Here's a URL to such a company and they are just one of many.

http://westcentralpowdercoating.com/cleaning.html

If you go to this site it will also provide enlightening information on the various types of pretreatments available. In the case of Van's steel components they should all be passivated with zinc phosphate, or iron phosphate at the very least.

Powdercoating is a barrier coating. Once the barrier is chipped or damaged corrosion can run under the powder coating unless the metal substrate is properly passivated.

The problem is that many powdercoaters do not have any passivation facilities because it costs more money to set up high quality pretreatment facilities than it does to set up a powder coating line. They simply give the components a quick degrease and spray on the powder. And that might be OK for indoor architectural products like tables and chairs etc but it is completely inadequate for industrial (or aviation) products exposed to the environment.
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Last edited by Captain Avgas : 06-18-2017 at 09:25 PM.
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  #15  
Old 06-19-2017, 08:55 AM
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William Slaughter William Slaughter is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Houston, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KatanaPilot View Post
Yesterday, when drilling the elevator horns on our newly built RV-7A tail, the power coating came off in large sections as the drill bit exited the hole.

I was easily able to flake off additional large pieces only to find poorly prepped and somewhat rusty bare metal underneath.

This was a bit disappointing as this was a new build tail with parts bought late in 2016. We will of course, clean up the bare metal and prime and paint the areas. We shouldn't have to and if this is the quality of the powder coated parts, I will try to get bare parts in the future and do them myself.

Anyone had a similar issue and how did you resolve it?
This has been pretty much the norm for me. When the coating comes off, I just sand it back to where it has actually adhered, then prime. I then paint to match, or leave it for the paint shop depending on the location.
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  #16  
Old 06-24-2017, 04:39 AM
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BlakeFrazier BlakeFrazier is offline
 
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Location: Evansville, IN
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Default Cardinal Paint to match

Quote:
Originally Posted by mturnerb View Post
Didn't find the touchup paint mentioned here on Van's site. I'm not sure if one would call them and ask whether they would have it or not.

I'm working on getting a case of the same paint from Cardinal now, and it will be up on our site as soon as I can get it in stock (and hopefully at Oshkosh too!). If anyone is interested, you can get in touch with me via email or PM.
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Last edited by BlakeFrazier : 06-24-2017 at 04:39 AM. Reason: clarity
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  #17  
Old 06-24-2017, 07:09 AM
SgtZim SgtZim is offline
 
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Location: Crittenden, ky
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I've had a few issues with the quality control on some kit parts, but Van's has always been very helpful and quick to provide new parts and advice. I know I'd never be able to finish a project like this by myself.

They do tend to go "economy class" in a lot of areas, but that's why I can build a plane for less than 1/4 the price of a cessnapiperbeech that goes a LOT faster, with a better view, burns less gas, pulls some gees....

I love this stuff!
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  #18  
Old 06-24-2017, 05:20 PM
KatanaPilot KatanaPilot is offline
 
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Location: Locust Grove, GA
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No question Van's does a great job in most areas and with customer support.

In this particular case, there is no easy way to remove the elevator horns, strip the powder coating and refinish them as they are riveted to the elevator structure. So I'll deal with it. My desire is for a bit better process control by the vendor which would benefit all of us. It probably would not cost much to implement.
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  #19  
Old 06-25-2017, 06:05 PM
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stringfellow stringfellow is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Aurora
Posts: 81
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Anyone know who Van's powder coating vendor is? I was going to take some pieces to an outfit which happens to be in Aurora, and I'm wondering if it's the same.
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  #20  
Old 10-23-2017, 01:40 PM
Chrisran75 Chrisran75 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: London, UK
Posts: 8
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Just stumbled across this having pulled my elevator horns for an RV7 off the shelf this evening....
The coating on one of them has blown and on removing there's light corrosion across at least half the horn. The other horn looks like it's bubbling. I received the empennage kit earlier this year. Guess I'll have to find a local powder coater who's willing to do these for me
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