|
-
POSTING RULES

-
Donate yearly (please).
-
Advertise in here!
-
Today's Posts
|
Insert Pics
|

07-30-2012, 09:51 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 34
|
|
Starting over on doors
I just got back from a wonderfully trip to Oshkosh and now have about 50 hours on the Hobbs. On the flight home I determined that I need to do something about the doors and would like to seek the general wisdom of the group to discuss options.
Here are my issues, yours may be different so please chime in:
1) Flex in the doors during flight is causing
a) gaps between fuselage and door edge. This is noticeable to me because I have not determined the best gap seal (Van's, Master Carr, etc) to use for my installation and so don't have any installed yet. The issue is that the doors flex a great deal, leading to pins pulling out and losing doors in flight. The seals cover up how much flex is actually occurring.
b) The window to door finish is cracking at several corners. Fiberglass tape around the windows did not prevent this (although they may have been sanded too thin.)
My thoughts are that the system does not have enough locking/engagement points along the outside perimeter and that the addition of one "safety latch" at the bottom center is not a solution to the real problem. The doors will flex and therefore making them stiffer (rebuilding with carbon fiber layers?) is another band-aid solution.
I keep thinking of how the Glass-Star doors have multiple points of locking/engagement and how simple that system is on "their" doors. Other thoughts, although not necessarily practical solutions are:
- Changing the hinge points to the front of the doors like the Cirrus. A potentially challenging solution but it adds a measure of safety to the design should other points fail.
- Having fixed engagement points along the top edge between the hinges that would automatically engage as the door is closed.
- Adding locking points along the sides and bottom as the handle engages.
Is anyone working on any of these or other approaches? What other considerations am I missing? I'm hoping to (re)start a discussion on this issue, find the best potential options, while identifying what others are trying or have tried. Your thoughts?
__________________
Nick Leonard (#40015) Finally Finished & Flying
C (916) 425-1064
Nick@NLeonard.com
|

07-30-2012, 10:16 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 4,196
|
|
I don't have an answer to your questions.
My observation with numerous RV-10s with McMaster-Carr seals and with the doors locked, the doors don't move. I'm not flying yet, but I have to exert a little force to get the doors latched. I suspect the seals will develop a memory after being compressed after awhile.
Sean's safety latch also helps tremdously in closing the doors tighly. I think you are discounting Sean's work pre-maturely.
I'm sure that there are better ways to do the doors, but not without significant re-engineering.
bob
|

07-30-2012, 12:58 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 1,966
|
|
I thought the doors were a little flimsy after I installed mine so I did a few things:
McMaster seals, lengthened the pins and machined longer/thicker Delrin pin blocks/guides, made a center door cam lock similar to Sean's, then drilled a few strategically located 3/16" holes through the inside half of the door shell and injected mixed up pour foam to expand and fill a few of the cavities of the door while it was locked in place and allowed to expand and cure overnight. I cleaned up and plugged the holes afterwards with a little flox.
__________________
David C.
Howell, MI
RV-10: #41686 Under Construction
RV-9A: #90949 Under Construction
RV-10: #40637 Completed/Sold 2016
Cozy MKIV:#656 Completed/Sold 2007
"Donor Exempt" but donated through Dec. 2020
|

07-30-2012, 01:02 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canal Winchester, Ohio
Posts: 417
|
|
Nick the RV-10 door pins with the planearound center latch works very good.
Putting multiple pins around the door as you are describing is not the solution.
Adding some carbon between the doors will help especially up top where the hinges are. The main cause I feel for door flex in the RV-10 is because the doors are not properly bonded together at the start. I feel that many of these doors do not get the proper 3D glass bond between the inside and outside panels. Also many bonds on the outer edges are not prepped properly and these doors halves can be pulled apart very easily if there is a little gap. Your windows could be cracking because your door is flexing so bad because there is no seal. Also the doors will separate if twisted with a bad bond. The mcmaster carr seal is superior to all others I have seen. When installed properly using the aluminum pin guides and the Planearound center latch it is a very good system that works. Having no seals could be hurting your doors.
If your airplane is not painted yet I would do the Mcmaster carr seals with the planearound saftey latch and would also consider reworking the doors. If it is painted I would still consider the Mcmaster seals but also look at the seals that ATP sells or a variation of that with the Planearound saftey latch and aluminum pins.
FWIW
Geoff
320hrs N829GW
__________________
Geoff Combs
RV-10 N829GW 865hrs
1940 Piper J3 Cub
Rans S21
|

07-31-2012, 09:01 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 34
|
|
Geoff, I think that we are right when it comes to properly bonding the two halves together. Had I to do it over again, I would have added a layer of carbon fiber where able and paid more attention to the bonding. I recall that the instructions seemed to be fairly casual about just slapping it together. I would also look at how I might make the window recess a little deeper. My hind-sight has improved dramatically.
The doors have been painted and I have the flush door handles but not the third latch, which I will seriously look at adding. I still have to figure out what to do around the windows.
__________________
Nick Leonard (#40015) Finally Finished & Flying
C (916) 425-1064
Nick@NLeonard.com
|

08-01-2012, 04:16 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fountain Hills, arizona
Posts: 117
|
|
doors
With allot of TLC the doors will work, but can something better be designed? I?m sure it can, and for such a great aircraft, I would like to see a better door design some day.
Sorry I don?t have any solutions, only allot of elbow grease with marginal results.
|

08-02-2012, 07:22 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,499
|
|
Ditto what Geoff posted above
I have no problems with this setup.
Yep, my paint is cracking around the windows due to different coefficients of expansion. My house and car has cracked paint too. Military aircraft have cracked paint. In order to not have cracked paint one must leave an unpainted gap around all windows. Possibly filling with a flexible sealant only. Mine is not a show plane but it sure hauls the family and camping gear just fine.
__________________
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
|

08-05-2012, 07:09 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,788
|
|
After I complete my build I am going to order another set of door halves to experiment with. While my finish and fit on the windows looks great today , I know that a year from now they will have a crack around the perimeter. I unfortunately started down the line of using a gap filler and a black mask on the window. I really could not get it to work, and I went back to the standard install with a single layer of 6 oz glass. I used the Sika adhesive, which I now know, expands with heat, so it's just a matter of time
My plan is to modify the new door so the window installs from the inside with a bezel around the glass. This way it can be sealed with a simple silicon based adhesive, like many production planes. It can also be replaced very easily. There are several other improvements that I want to make in the latch mechanism that I have seen in various construction logs.
__________________
Bill Peyton
RV-10 - 1125 hrs
N37CP
First Flight Oct 2012
Aviation Partners, LLC
|

08-05-2012, 09:06 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Peachtree City, Georgia
Posts: 440
|
|
I am finally satisfied with my door operations. I installed the PlaneAround 180? mod and I have the McMaster seals. I can now let the passenger close his own door. I still watch, but there is no way the aft pin is outside if the PlaneAround cam is properly seated - which I can see.
John
__________________
John Goodman - 40572
First flight was 25 June, 2011
N711JG
|

10-21-2017, 04:58 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: West Covina, Ca
Posts: 52
|
|
More door questions......
I am creeping up on bonding my doors together. There have been numerous posts regarding the doors being too flexible. I have read some recommending carbon fiber in the hinge area, some using pour foam, some extra flox.
1- Has anyone made a door stiffening mod that they are happy with and would like to share?
2- If so, could you provide some detail? For instance, I cannot figure out where in the hinge area reinforcement would be best if placed.
I do have the PlaneAround 180 kit with third latch.
3-Any strong opinions on pre/post installation of the kit prior to bonding the door halves?
Could not have made it this far without all the help on this forum. Thanks to everyone who has posted advice in the past.
-Cliff
__________________
Cliff Langlois
Meridian, Idaho
Cliffsrv10.blogspot.com
Project Sold 9/2018
RV-10
Empennage finished!
QB Fuselage and wings in hand
Taking a bite of the elephant every day.
|
| Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:14 AM.
|