Colored Smoke

[RV7A Flyer]

Originally Posted by rjt194

Novasolve 780 claims to work with piston.

So the question is why does coloured smoke work with jets and not piston? Exhaust not hot enough?

Somebody should get ahold of some of this stuff and try some ground experiments. I can't see how it would work in jet exhaust and not in piston exhaust, unless as you say it's a temperature thing.

IF, and it's a big if, it works in our style of smoke systems, it'd be the first time I think most of us have seen an additive that would. And I'd still be worried about staining...

But I say it's worth taking a look-see

ETA: Submitted some questions to the Nova company to see what they say about it working in our smoke systems...would be great if it does, but we'll have to wait and see what they say.

[thilokind]

I work for a large chemical company, that makes the dyes that would color the smoke. The underlying mechanism of the colored smoke is well understood (sublimation of dyes). Unfortunately, the exhaust gas temperature of a piston engine is not high enough - you will need a jet engine. Alternatively, pyro system would provide high enough temperatures.
I have tried to find a solution to work with lower temperatures, but no success.
The down side side of the dyes: the will stain the paint on the airplane...

[RV7A Flyer]

Originally Posted by thilokind

I work for a large chemical company, that makes the dyes that would color the smoke. The underlying mechanism of the colored smoke is well understood (sublimation of dyes). Unfortunately, the exhaust gas temperature of a piston engine is not high enough - you will need a jet engine. Alternatively, pyro system would provide high enough temperatures.
I have tried to find a solution to work with lower temperatures, but no success.
The down side side of the dyes: the will stain the paint on the airplane...

The Novasolve page says the temps need to be > about 300C. Wonder what the temp of the exhaust is somewhere down the pipe on a Lycoming, say, 1' from the end or so?

Seems like it'd be above 300C...

[C-FAH Q]

How about releasing coloured streamers ?

[flyride]

There's a lot more hot gas that comes out of a jet.

But I think the most reasonable explanation is that the injector shoots the smoke oil into the jet exhaust that is aft of the airframe. So no risk of staining or corrosion.

I remember a few years back when the Patriots had a jet that blew the blue dye line and the entire fuselage/engine bay interior was bright blue.

[PAN-DENMARK]

Hi - reopening this thread - I am with a Danish RV formation team - and we are being considered to to fly-by's at two major events next year in Copenhagen - European Soccer Championship and the start of Tour de France (go figure why they start in Copenhagen - but they do) - and we are asked to produce white and red smoke (Danish Flag). Just wondering if anyone has seen this successfully done from a piston aircraft (not pyrotechnics) but dye oil - from what I can read at NovaSmoke they recommend to inject the oil near the exhaust end (so the dye is not burned off) - but I have not seen any evidence if this would work. Any input is more than welcome.

All the best and stay safe

Per Andersen
Copenhagen, Denmark
RV6A (OY-IPA)

[AlpineYoda]

There was a story in Flying, AOPA Pilot, or Smithsonian Air & Space (I frankly don't recall which) in the past year about someone who has a business building self-contained smoke generators. I think they fit them into an aerodynamic package that fits an AIM-9 Sidewinder mount. That would not need power or heat from either a jet or piston engine.

I'm sure a bit of Google searching could reveal who they are. Sorry I'm not more help.

But please upload photos if you get one - I'd love to see a kit plane sporting a pair of Sidewinders on the wingtips!

[BuckWynd]

Originally Posted by AlpineYoda

There was a story in Flying, AOPA Pilot, or Smithsonian Air & Space (I frankly don't recall which) in the past year about someone who has a business building self-contained smoke generators. I think they fit them into an aerodynamic package that fits an AIM-9 Sidewinder mount. That would not need power or heat from either a jet or piston engine.

The pods are called Smokewinders, and they're make by Sanders Smoke Systems: http://sanderssmoke.com/

[RV7A Flyer]

Originally Posted by BuckWynd

The pods are called Smokewinders, and they're make by Sanders Smoke Systems: http://sanderssmoke.com/

Again, looks like pyro devices to me. Not exhaust/oil injection.

[JDeanda]

It CAN be done, I?m just not sure how. Some years ago a customer approached me about making red smoke for airshows in his Pitts. I didn?t know how to do it but was able to refer him to a movie special effects specialist who pointed my guy to ?something? that did the job. Customer never would tell me what he used, and I never even learned if it was an additive to his smoke oil or if it was something that went into his tank straight. He said it was toxic and he didn?t want to use it any more. I think he used it for one or two air shows and stopped. He got brilliant, crimson red smoke. Later, I put new fabric on the airplane and found that whatever that red stuff was, it had penetrated the paint, dope, fabric and glue right to the steel tubing.