VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Avionics / Interiors / Fiberglass > ADS-B
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-14-2017, 09:59 AM
GalinHdz's Avatar
GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KSGJ / TJBQ
Posts: 2,039
Default ADS-B "Save"

On Sept 7 I was at 4,00ft IFR on V198 talking to Eglin approach on my way to Milton, FL (2R4) when my SkyView display started giving me a "Traffic Warning". The ADS-B indicated I had traffic 3 miles out, approaching me, head on at my same altitude. When the alert showed the traffic at 1 mile, still approaching me head on and still at my altitude I firmly pulled the nose up and turned to the right. A few seconds later I saw a twin engine airplane about 100ft below me, right where the ADS-B was showing, pass by.

When I got over the "scare" I told the controller what had just happened. The controller sheepishly told me it was a Seneca maneuvering in that area. Needless to say I let the controller know I was a little upset about what happened. When I got on the ground I filled out a NASA form just so my little grain of salt is entered into the system.

I don't know if I would I have seen the traffic without the ADS-B "point out" but being able to know where to look for traffic is a significant safety enhancement. In this case I didn't actually see it until it was extremely close. I am so glad I have this in my airplane.

__________________
Galin
CP-ASEL-AMEL-IR
FCC Radiotelephone (PG) with Radar Endorsement
2020 Donation made
www.PuertoRicoFlyer.com

Last edited by GalinHdz : 09-14-2017 at 05:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:02 AM
BoilermakerRV's Avatar
BoilermakerRV BoilermakerRV is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Danville, IN (West of Indy)
Posts: 199
Default Good Reminder

Thanks for sharing Galin. I assume you were on an IFR flight plan, but in VMC. A good reminder for us all to stay alert and keep up our scan even when "in the system".
__________________
Michael
Danville, IN

RV-7A Canopy/Finishing
N317PU Reserved
2020 Dues paid (February 2020)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:31 AM
rv8ch's Avatar
rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LSGY
Posts: 3,198
Default Number to call

Did you give the controller a number to call when you got on the ground?

Seriously scary. Really glad it turned out ok!
__________________
Mickey Coggins
http://rv8.ch
"Hello, world!"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:42 AM
bruceh's Avatar
bruceh bruceh is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ramona, CA
Posts: 2,370
Default

I love having the traffic displayed on the Skyview. It has prevented more than a couple of close calls for me. I'm always amazed at just how many airplanes there are in the SoCal area that you just otherwise wouldn't see. It really reminds you to always keep looking outside.
__________________
Bruce Hill
RV-9A N5771H flown over 800 hours!
http://www.overthehills.com/RV-9A-Project
APRS Tracking for KJ6YRP and New Flying Blog
2020 VAF donator
EAA Tech Counselor, Build assistance - canopy/tanks/fiberglass/electrical/repairs
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:46 AM
rv7boy's Avatar
rv7boy rv7boy is offline
Forum Peruser
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austinville, Alabama
Posts: 2,458
Default Questions about ADS-B

Okay, so I'll ask the neophyte questions...

Did you receive the traffic alert because the twin had ADS-B out? Or better stated, would you have received an alert if the twin was not equipped with ADS-B out?

I'm just trying to learn. My biggest concern is that out in the boondocks (which is most of the country's airspace), where aircraft without ADS-B out can operate after 2020 legally (generally in non Class A, non Class B and non Class C and Class E below 10,000 MSL), some good ol' boy could come honking along and not be seen by a pilot who's on snooze control because he has the latest and greatest avionics. It's still going to be "see and avoid" for VFR cross-country after 2020, right?

I know I need to read and study about ADS-B, but I'd like to hear some discussion from pilots who are already using it.
__________________
Don Hull
RV-7 Wings
KDCU Pryor Field
Pilots'n Paws Pilot
N79599/ADS-B In and Out...and I like it!

?Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights;
it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." Miriam Beard

Last edited by rv7boy : 09-14-2017 at 01:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:47 AM
GalinHdz's Avatar
GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KSGJ / TJBQ
Posts: 2,039
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilermakerRV View Post
Thanks for sharing Galin. I assume you were on an IFR flight plan, but in VMC. A good reminder for us all to stay alert and keep up our scan even when "in the system".
Yes I was on an IFR flight plan in very good (No clouds, +10 Vis) VMC conditions. Even so I didn't see the Seneca until the very last second. FWIW: ALL my Landing/Taxi and Strobes/Recognition lights are LED's so, except for the strobes which come on just before takeoff, they are always on from engine start to engine off. Believe me, they are VERY bright.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv8ch View Post
Did you give the controller a number to call when you got on the ground?
After I "firmly informed" the controller of what happened, a different voice came on the radio and told me the Seneca was behind me and no longer a factor. It gave me the impression the original controller, who was quite busy at the time, was a trainee.

Also, you can see my "evasive" maneuver on the FlightAware Track Log from 20:56:21Z to 20:57:03Z. What you can't see there is the effect it had on my underwear.
__________________
Galin
CP-ASEL-AMEL-IR
FCC Radiotelephone (PG) with Radar Endorsement
2020 Donation made
www.PuertoRicoFlyer.com

Last edited by GalinHdz : 09-14-2017 at 06:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-14-2017, 11:09 AM
BCP Boys's Avatar
BCP Boys BCP Boys is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kennesaw, Ga
Posts: 825
Default

Honestly if you are talking to someone like Eglin which you have to be in that area, regardless if you are IFR or VFR, if they are talking to you they should have told you about that traffic. I know he/she doesn't have to if you are VFR but they should if they are talking to you. It much worse if you are in IFR and you still weren't told. That's just terrible!!!
__________________
Amir
----------
RV-7
RV-10 - Sold

Supporting VAF since the first visit
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-14-2017, 11:19 AM
GalinHdz's Avatar
GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KSGJ / TJBQ
Posts: 2,039
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv7boy View Post
Okay, so I'll ask the neophyte questions...

Did you receive the traffic alert because the twin had ADS-B out? Or better stated, would you have received an alert if the twin was not equipped with ADS-B out?

I'm just trying to learn. My biggest concern is that out in the boondocks (which is most of the country's airspace), where aircraft without ADS-B out can operate after 2020 legally (in non Class B and non Class C and below 10,000 MSL), some good ol' boy could come honking along and not be seen by a pilot who's on snooze control because he has the latest and greatest avionics. It's still going to be "see and avoid" for VFR cross-country after 2020, right?

I know I need to read and study about ADS-B, but I'd like to hear some discussion from pilots who are already using it.
I don't think the twin had ADS-B OUT since it never displayed a tail number, BUT it could have been in "anonymous" mode. If it didn't have ADS-B OUT but was being "painted" by ATC, it should have shown up anyways. BTW, "see and avoid" will always be the ultimate collision avoidance system while flying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCP Boys View Post
Honestly if you are talking to someone like Eglin which you have to be in that area, regardless if you are IFR or VFR, if they are talking to you they should have told you about that traffic. I know he/she doesn't have to if you are VFR but they should if they are talking to you. It much worse if you are in IFR and you still weren't told. That's just terrible!!!
I agree 100%, but it goes to emphasis that "see and avoid" is still the best and ultimate collision avoidance system.

__________________
Galin
CP-ASEL-AMEL-IR
FCC Radiotelephone (PG) with Radar Endorsement
2020 Donation made
www.PuertoRicoFlyer.com

Last edited by GalinHdz : 09-14-2017 at 11:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-14-2017, 01:44 PM
rv7boy's Avatar
rv7boy rv7boy is offline
Forum Peruser
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austinville, Alabama
Posts: 2,458
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalinHdz View Post
... If it didn't have ADS-B OUT but was being "painted" by ATC, it should have shown up anyways.
What do you mean by "painted?" I take that to mean "on radar." But I don't think there is a link between ATC's radar and the ADS-B system. If so, tell me how, because I haven't found that yet in my study of ADS-B.

This is the main point of my question. If an airplane is not equipped with ADS-B out, the pilot of the ADS-B equipped airplane won't know about it unless he looks out the windshield...and then it's a "maybe."

I believe ADS-B will offer a lot of improvements over what we have now, but I see cracks in the mortar.

It appears to be similar to the situation at our airport (Pryor Regional Airport, Decatur, Alabama, KDCU). It's a rare event, but it is legal to fly a NORDO aircraft into this busy, non-towered, ILS equipped, VOR on-the-field airport that sits under the outer shelf of nearby Huntsville (KHSV) Class C airspace. Those of us with radios (probably 99.9% of aircraft flying into and out of KDCU) make clear, concise radio calls, but our heads are always on swivels prior to taking the active, looking for that NORDO aircraft coming in to land. As good as modern technology is, we must not let it lead us down the road of complacency. I agree with you, "See and avoid" will always be the ultimate collision avoidance system while flying.

P.S. "Good on ya" for remembering to use the NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System.
__________________
Don Hull
RV-7 Wings
KDCU Pryor Field
Pilots'n Paws Pilot
N79599/ADS-B In and Out...and I like it!

?Certainly, travel is more than the seeing of sights;
it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." Miriam Beard

Last edited by rv7boy : 09-14-2017 at 01:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-14-2017, 01:51 PM
BoilermakerRV's Avatar
BoilermakerRV BoilermakerRV is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Danville, IN (West of Indy)
Posts: 199
Default Ground Relay

I believe that ATC ground stations will send up radar target data to ADS-B IN equipped aircraft. Although there may be an interrogation required. Others are better versed in this technology than I.
__________________
Michael
Danville, IN

RV-7A Canopy/Finishing
N317PU Reserved
2020 Dues paid (February 2020)

Last edited by BoilermakerRV : 09-14-2017 at 01:51 PM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:38 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.