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07-30-2017, 01:44 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Rancho San Lorenzo
Posts: 885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn25854
The anonymous mode is just icing on the cake. 
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EDIT: I am leaving my original post below "as is" for consistency but let it be known the information I got at the Garmin tent was wrong. So most of what I wrote below is wrong too. I finally talked to the right people at Garmin today (two days after this post was first presented). I have now pre-ordered two units since the anonymous mode misinformation has been cleared....
I just canceled my GDL-82 pre-order. The shoe dropped. The new Garmin offering has "fake" anonymous mode.
I thought it sounded too good to be true about anonymous mode being, as Shawn put it, "the icing on the cake". I still wanted more due diligence and after spending time at the Garmin tent at Oshkosh it was revealed that in order to appease the FAA Garmin made anonymous mode on the GDL-82 anonymous to private citizens but not to ATC. This is unlike competitive UAT offerings that provide actual random ICAO codes when anonymous. So the GDL-82 anonymous mode merely keeps other aircraft and FlightAware hobbiests from knowing your identity. Despite the fact that UAT combined with Mode C has always had the right to full anonymity from both private and public entities.
There is no specification under the mandate for VFR traffic to be identified as long as that traffic complies with the actual ADS-B out mandate for position, altitude and other parameters. It is supposed to be the VFR aircraft operator's prerogative. It's this type of behind the scenes certification manipulation that might give the appearance that safety and the modernization of the ATC system is being compromised by other interests. Impressions are important.
Jim
__________________
RV-8
(a few more airplanes too)
Last edited by jliltd : 07-31-2017 at 03:08 PM.
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07-30-2017, 06:04 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Catawba, NC
Posts: 193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jliltd
I just canceled my GDL-82 pre-order. The shoe dropped. The new Garmin offering has "fake" anonymous mode.
I thought it sounded too good to be true about anonymous mode being, as Shawn put it, "the icing on the cake". I still wanted more due diligence and after spending time at the Garmin tent at Oshkosh it was revealed that in order to appease the FAA Garmin made anonymous mode on the GDL-82 anonymous to private citizens but not to ATC. This is unlike competitive UAT offerings that provide actual random ICAO codes when anonymous. So the GDL-82 anonymous mode merely keeps other aircraft and FlightAware hobbiests from knowing your identity. Despite the fact that UAT combined with Mode C has always had the right to full anonymity from both private and public entities.
There is no specification under the mandate for VFR traffic to be identified as long as that traffic complies with the actual ADS-B out mandate for position, altitude and other parameters. It is supposed to be the VFR aircraft operator's prerogative. It's this type of behind the scenes certification manipulation that might give the appearance that safety and the modernization of the ATC system is being compromised by other interests. Impressions are important.
Jim
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This is contradictory to what Garmin posted in post #28. Wonder which is true.
__________________
mangling aluminum since May 2009
RV7-A, flying
RV8 under construction
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07-30-2017, 07:40 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 2,885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineerorange
This is contradictory to what Garmin posted in post #28. Wonder which is true.
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Hello engineerorange,
The information in this posting should be accurate.
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...8&postcount=28
When your transmitted data stream does not contain either your ICAO address or your Flight ID, there should be no way for anyone to identify you.
Jim, if you could email g3xpert@garmin.com, we can discuss the misunderstanding.
Thanks,
Steve
__________________
Garmin G3X Support
g3xpert@garmin.com
1-866-854-8433 - 7 to 7 Central Time M to F
Please email us for support instead of using Private Messaging due to the limitations of the latter.
Last edited by g3xpert : 07-30-2017 at 09:36 AM.
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07-30-2017, 09:11 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jliltd
I just canceled my GDL-82 pre-order. The shoe dropped. The new Garmin offering has "fake" anonymous mode.
I thought it sounded too good to be true about anonymous mode being, as Shawn put it, "the icing on the cake". I still wanted more due diligence and after spending time at the Garmin tent at Oshkosh it was revealed that in order to appease the FAA Garmin made anonymous mode on the GDL-82 anonymous to private citizens but not to ATC. This is unlike competitive UAT offerings that provide actual random ICAO codes when anonymous. So the GDL-82 anonymous mode merely keeps other aircraft and FlightAware hobbiests from knowing your identity. Despite the fact that UAT combined with Mode C has always had the right to full anonymity from both private and public entities.
There is no specification under the mandate for VFR traffic to be identified as long as that traffic complies with the actual ADS-B out mandate for position, altitude and other parameters. It is supposed to be the VFR aircraft operator's prerogative. It's this type of behind the scenes certification manipulation that might give the appearance that safety and the modernization of the ATC system is being compromised by other interests. Impressions are important.
Jim
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jim, would you mind explaining how ATC can receive the ICAO code but not private citizens? If Steve's explanation in post #28 of this thread is accurate how is ATC going to be able to pick that signal out of the air when others cannot?
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07-30-2017, 03:11 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Rancho San Lorenzo
Posts: 885
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Sorry for the delayed response. Traveled all day getting home from OSH. I will contact Steve (g3expert) directly. But the Garmin employee at the ADS-B display answering questions volunteered the ATC/Private differences to myself and a crowd of at least 7 people. He must have been way off. Because you are right. How could the unit datastream be interpretated differently by different recievers. The guy in the blue Garmin shirt might have caused me to go on without thinking. Unfortunately at least one other potential customer didn't like his answer either and we both had a long discussion together in the Garmin tent. I have to conclude they had the wrong Garmin guy in the ADS-B area of the tent.
Jim
P.S. Stearman Field near Wichita rocks as a fuel and food stop.
__________________
RV-8
(a few more airplanes too)
Last edited by jliltd : 07-30-2017 at 03:15 PM.
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07-30-2017, 09:00 PM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jliltd
Sorry for the delayed response. Traveled all day getting home from OSH. I will contact Steve (g3expert) directly. But the Garmin employee at the ADS-B display answering questions volunteered the ATC/Private differences to myself and a crowd of at least 7 people. He must have been way off. Because you are right. How could the unit datastream be interpretated differently by different recievers. The guy in the blue Garmin shirt might have caused me to go on without thinking. Unfortunately at least one other potential customer didn't like his answer either and we both had a long discussion together in the Garmin tent. I have to conclude they had the wrong Garmin guy in the ADS-B area of the tent.
Jim
P.S. Stearman Field near Wichita rocks as a fuel and food stop.
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Yes, when it comes to the Garmin tent at OSH, our flying group always finds Steve to discuss details. He might direct us to someone else but we have the opportunity before we talk with anyone else to find out his take on things first.
Stearman is a great place for food for sure. You might try Paola, KS (K81) also. They have a great BBQ restaurant in the terminal building. Great BBQ and a great breakfast too. By the way, if you fly into K81 you may run into Steve (G3Expert) there also.
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07-31-2017, 01:09 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 18
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GDL-82 and Rebate
FYI- When I tried to register for the FAA rebate today the GDL-82 was not a listed UAT device. I received the following response from FAA ADS-B Rebate Center when I queried them about this.
"We have confirmed with Garmin that GDL-82 has not received the TSO yet. They expect to have the TSO and STC around the end of October. This equipment cannot be used at this time for the ADS-B rebate. Any application for the ADS-B rebates must be done on our website.
The last day to apply for the rebate is 9/18/17. Thanks."
The GDL-82 looks like a good solution for many certified aircraft that do not have a 2020 compatible position source and a non-mode S transponder. However, if it is not eligible for the rebate I may wait to see what else becomes available. There area couple of companies with experimental ADS-B systems that are working on certification.
V/R,
John P
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07-31-2017, 03:05 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Rancho San Lorenzo
Posts: 885
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Clarified.... All is good
I had some excellent communications with Steve et al at Garmin. I wish I had known where he was at the tent and talked directly to him.
Bottom line. The GDL-82 is in fact as anonymous as it comes and is so instantly upon switch selection. That's great news.
So I put in another order. It's unfortunate if the unit doesn't TSO prior to the rebate application deadline but that's not a deal killer for me. The product is the right one for ease of installation and other features I want.
Jim
__________________
RV-8
(a few more airplanes too)
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07-31-2017, 03:09 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northwestern USA
Posts: 1,209
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Surprised the FAA didn't suggest simply picking a different ADS-B product for the initial application, then changing it to the GDL 82 for the final installation and verification. They specifically state on their website that this is allowed:
Quote:
What if different equipment is installed on the aircraft than what was originally intended and entered on the reservation form?
Due to circumstances that may arise, aircraft owners may install different equipment than originally planned and still be eligible for the rebate so long as what is installed aligns with the program rules. The equipment that is actually installed must be entered on the Public ADS-B Performance Report request and also on the Rebate Claim Form.
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mcb
__________________
Matt Burch
RV-7 (last 90%)
http://www.rv7blog.com
VAF #836
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not those of my employer.
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07-31-2017, 03:23 PM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mburch
Surprised the FAA didn't suggest simply picking a different ADS-B product for the initial application, then changing it to the GDL 82 for the final installation and verification. They specifically state on their website that this is allowed:
mcb
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If they do not make it on the list before the September 18th deadline this is the route I intend to go. I am hopeful Garmin will stay on the ball and be able to deliver before the 150 day deadline from registration. At any rate, I think it wise to hold off on registering for a bit to see what Garmin tells us concerning delivery.
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