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07-20-2017, 05:22 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Powell, OH
Posts: 250
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Thanks Scott
Thanks for the info Scott, I use the word "scrap" loosely, I have no intention of scrapping any parts.
The new RV-12SI is a fantastic upgrade, I have long held hope that someday I would be able to put a IS engine in the 12 and was not sure of the path I was going to take to get there. I was kicking around building EAB for a while but knew I couldn't just throw a IS engine in there without knowing what I was doing from an engineering perspective.
Do you know what changes the seat design and carpets, side walls will be I have Abby from Flightline Interiors on hold with my seats until the interior design changes are known.
__________________
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David Rohrlick
PPSEL, A&P
RV-12iS Completed
Airworthiness signed off by the FAA 1/23/2020
First Flight on 3/14/2020
Phase I Finished on 5/7/2020
Need:
Paint?
Serial#12-0864
N112DR
https://youtube.com/c/CraftingN112DR
VAF donation made for 2020
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07-20-2017, 05:26 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 621
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For those who don't like the fuselage mounted fuel tank, one might look at the accident statistics for the Diamond DA20 series - all have 20+- gallon fuselage tanks mounted behind the seats. These are used primarily as trainers and you have to look long and hard to find any post crash fires in the accident statistics.
I know it's not an apples to apples to comparison as the DA20's are Part 23 and Diamond places a great deal of design emphasis on crash robustness. Hence the 26G cabins and in the case of the DA40's and later - welded aluminum tanks placed between front and rear spars.
I really don't like the leading edge tanks in most of the RV's but I understand the difficulty in placing welded tanks in an aluminum wing vs a composite one.
Personally I think the RV-12 tank is a safer design than others in the RV lineup.
__________________
Krea Ellis
Locust Grove, GA
DA20-A1 "Princess Amelia" - gone home to Amelia Island
RV-7A Phase 2
RV-10 under construction at Synergy Air South
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07-20-2017, 09:33 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 421
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After watching the video, I have several questions....
Was the G load measured somehow when then forklift was accelerated?
Will a gear retrofit kit be offered to existing RV-12 owners? Looks like the same gear legs - just a plate and perhaps some other components?
...I mean it seems like a valuable add - after all in both instances the fuel tank is in the cockpit and attached to the center section and any additional way to protect against a hard landing would seem a valuable addition.
Also - before a bunch of builders in process dump their whole fuselage kit and start over....looking at the video it doesn't seem like there are that many changes....couldn't a current builder just order the new firewall, fuel tank and small number of other parts and move forward?
Last edited by cactusman : 07-20-2017 at 09:42 AM.
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07-20-2017, 09:43 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cactuspilot
After watching the video, I have several questions....
Was the G load measured somehow when then forklift was accelerated?
Will a gear retrofit kit be offered to existing RV-12 owners? Looks like the same gear legs - just a plate and perhaps some other components?
...I mean it seems like a valuable add - after all in both instances the fuel tank is in the cockpit and attached to the center section and any additional way to protect against a hard landing would seem a valuable addition.
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The G load didn't need to be measured. It can be determined by the speed of the fork lift (which was pre-calculated).
The retrofit kit is to build an iS fwd fuselage.
The improved main landing gear leg attachment is more than just different hardware or adding a doubler plate.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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07-20-2017, 09:49 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002
The retrofit kit is to build an iS fwd fuselage.
The improved main landing gear leg attachment is more than just different hardware or adding a doubler plate.
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So...by FWD fuselage - what are we talking about here?
Before a bunch of builders in process dump their whole fuselage kit and start over....looking at the video it doesn't seem like there are that many changes....couldn't a current builder just order the new firewall, fuel tank and small number of other parts and move forward?
On the gear...what "more" was done to the gear?
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07-20-2017, 11:15 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cactuspilot
So...by FWD fuselage - what are we talking about here?
Before a bunch of builders in process dump their whole fuselage kit and start over....looking at the video it doesn't seem like there are that many changes....couldn't a current builder just order the new firewall, fuel tank and small number of other parts and move forward?
On the gear...what "more" was done to the gear?
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Fwd fuselage means in the same context that the KAI describes it.... the portion that comes in the fuselage kit.
Aft fuselage is the tail cone portion that comes in the empenage kit.
So as already mentioned, the original empenage and wing kit can be used as is.
The fwd fuselage is extensively changed. You can not just buy some parts to build a Gen 1 fuselage into the iS fuselage. If that were possible, it would be be advertised and offered to everyone.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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07-20-2017, 12:10 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 873
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Order Form
Looking at the RV-12 order form on Van?s website, it offers a ULS engine option and an iS engine option. If you select the ULS option, do you get the old fuselage, or will your kit include all the new features like pre-bent longerons, redesigned fuel tank, center console with throttle, increased baggage capacity, etc?
http://vansaircraft.com/pdf/order_fo...order-form.pdf
Do you have to decide on the engine when you order the fuselage kit, or can you put it off until you order the engine?
Thanks,
__________________
Mark
RV-12iS Fuselage
RV-9A Project: Sold
VAF donation made for 2020
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07-20-2017, 12:14 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv9builder
Looking at the RV-12 order form on Van?s website, it offers a ULS engine option and an iS engine option. If you select the ULS option, do you get the old fuselage, or will your kit include all the new features like pre-bent longerons, redesigned fuel tank, center console with throttle, increased baggage capacity, etc?
http://vansaircraft.com/pdf/order_fo...order-form.pdf
Do you have to decide on the engine when you order the fuselage kit, or can you put it off until you order the engine?
Thanks,
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New orders will get the new design fuselage, which can then be completed with a ULS or an iS power plant kit.
The engine choice decision will have to be made when ordering the finish kit.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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07-20-2017, 12:22 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 873
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Thanks, Scott!
__________________
Mark
RV-12iS Fuselage
RV-9A Project: Sold
VAF donation made for 2020
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07-20-2017, 03:58 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Knoxville, IL
Posts: 100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002
Rob,
Your situation is one that we always know will happen as we approach the announcement of a new design. We fully understand that some people will be disappointed and I apologize for that, but the reality is that there will be some people effected regardless of when the transition occurs.
Customers that had fuselage kits on order but that had not yet been shipped were given the option to switch if they are willing to accept some delay while production ramps up for the new kit, but accepting returns of already shipped kits is just not possible.
Sorry.
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Thanks Scott, I understand you have to draw the line somewhere and unfortunately it appears I was in that group of unlucky few. I'm just so disappointed that something can't be worked out. Out of the few in my situation, I wonder how many fuselage kit crates are unopened like mine. I would be willing to pay shipping back to Aurora plus a restocking fee. I've been nothing but pleased with all my dealings with Van's, including my visit and demo flight at Aurora. I'm an avid fan of Van's products and promote them in my flying club and EAA chapter. Again, so disappointed that I, as your customer, am being let down. Please, if there's anything that can be done at all to help me, let me know. Best regards, Rob
__________________
RV12 - building
Empennage finished
Wings finished
iS Fuselage in progress
ULS Fuselage kit - SOLD
Farmer - corn & soybeans
Firefighter
Knoxville, IL
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