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  #11  
Old 07-19-2017, 06:16 AM
rleffler's Avatar
rleffler rleffler is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer View Post
Here's heresy - RV-10s are quite expensive and for much less money you could get an older factory built airplane. Don't be in a hurry...

An RV-10 will cost less to maintain than a factory plane, but you won't necessarily know what you're getting. There's lots of surprises in buying a used homebuilt, and some of them can be really ugly (ask me how I know).

Do lots of shopping and tire kicking!

Ed
I agree with you Ed, it's heresy.

It is extremely important that an experienced A&P with significant RV knowledge not only conduct the pre buy inspection, but helps educate you, the buyer, in any potential issues. There are plenty of well qualified individuals that frequent VAF. You just have to find one close to you or the aircraft.

Most of the bad scenarios that I'm aware related to the pre-buy inspection not being through enough to find the issues. Just read Vic Syracuse's postings here, on FB, or in Kitplanes as an example.

By the way, it's not any different that doing a good pre-buy inspection on a certified aircraft. I did one many years ago on a Cherokee, in which I had to inform the second owner that his aircraft was involved in a off field landing and where the damage was in the wings. He didn't catch it when he purchased the aircraft. The repairs weren't in the logs, but the incident was on file at the FAA and the evidence of the repair was easy to spot if you knew where to look.
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  #12  
Old 07-19-2017, 07:55 AM
jahoosafat jahoosafat is offline
 
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I'm hearing loud and clear those saying the pre-buy is crucial. I would def invest the money to have someone like a Vic Syracuse or Jesse Saint do it.

Buying an experimental as a first plane sounds like an odd choice, but the more people I speak with, the more I hear that the differences between certified and experimental aren't necessarily a big deal. The risks are there either way.

Jeff
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2017, 12:08 PM
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bill@fusion4.net bill@fusion4.net is offline
 
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As a owner of an older 182 for 10 years, and then a builder and owner of a rv-10, the flying and maintaining of the 10 and the capabilities are so much better.

Maintaining a 3 year old plane is so much nicer (and less expensive) then a 30-50 year old one.

From what I have seen, many, or even most RV-10's at least are built very well, but I have seen a few really bad ones, so as you have already stated a RV experienced A&P pre-buy is a must
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  #14  
Old 07-19-2017, 04:19 PM
Sandrews Sandrews is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill@fusion4.net View Post
As a owner of an older 182 for 10 years, and then a builder and owner of a rv-10, the flying and maintaining of the 10 and the capabilities are so much better.

Maintaining a 3 year old plane is so much nicer (and less expensive) then a 30-50 year old one.

From what I have seen, many, or even most RV-10's at least are built very well, but I have seen a few really bad ones, so as you have already stated a RV experienced A&P pre-buy is a must


What's qualifies as a really bad built 10?
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  #15  
Old 07-19-2017, 07:06 PM
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Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
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A bad RV-10 (or any RV) could include:
* Bad sheet metal work, including riveting, edge distance violations, deburring;
* Poor wiring, including wire size and type. I've heard that about half of homebuilts need rewiring;
* Full flight testing not done nor documented;
* Wiring not documented. Especially with complex glass cockpits, if you don't have this, your avionics could be really hard to maintain;
* Not using aircraft hardware, bolts and screws too short or too long;
* Systems installation in general;
* Bad switchology in the cockpit (this is an epidemic, don't get me started!);
* C.g. not calculated properly;
* Checklists that don't match the individual airplane;
* Bad avionics installation, even from a "professional" shop.

Personal experience talking here, folks...

Ed
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  #16  
Old 07-20-2017, 06:16 AM
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bill@fusion4.net bill@fusion4.net is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandrews View Post
What's qualifies as a really bad built 10?
Search for posts from Jesse about things he found in tail attach brackets on RV's.

Seen some bad edge distances on longeron bolts connecting tail and fuselage.

Saw some very large holes drilled in fuselage side ribs to run 1 3/4 pool hose as conduit.

Hardware store course threaded bolts in places.

But these have been a few instances, most are built with loving care and pride.
Just got to have someone that knows RV's look them over.
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Bill Thomasson
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http://sites.google.com/a/fusion4.net/rv10/
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  #17  
Old 07-20-2017, 06:55 AM
N427EF N427EF is offline
 
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Posts: 1,516
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Can't argue with you BUT,
I have seen the same and worse in older
certified planes.
Just something to consider when looking at a 50 year old
Cessna.

Quote:
A bad RV-10 (or any RV) could include:
* Bad sheet metal work, including riveting, edge distance violations, deburring;
* Poor wiring, including wire size and type. I've heard that about half of homebuilts need rewiring;
* Full flight testing not done nor documented;
* Wiring not documented. Especially with complex glass cockpits, if you don't have this, your avionics could be really hard to maintain;
* Not using aircraft hardware, bolts and screws too short or too long;
* Systems installation in general;
* Bad switchology in the cockpit (this is an epidemic, don't get me started!);
* C.g. not calculated properly;
* Checklists that don't match the individual airplane;
* Bad avionics installation, even from a "professional" shop.
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Ernst Freitag
RV-8 finished (sold)
RV-10 Flyer 600 plus hours
Running on E10 mogas
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