WHY DOES THE RV-10?????

[kentb]

If you are not going to have Vans stall warning system, make sure that you have something as good or better like an AOA.
Randy Debauw (second customer RV10 to fly) didn't hook up the Vans horn, but installed AFS AOA. While going into OSH two years ago as he turned base he saw another plane in close proximity and so tightened his bank. The AOA started squawking and he realized quickly that he was over doing the bank and corrected.

The RV planes (including the RV10's) are such a joy to fly and respond so well to banking that it is easy to get use to being aggressive with the stick. This could kill you when you are low and slow. None of us are perfect (even though sometimes we think we are ) so stack the deck in your (and your passengers) favor and have something that will tell you when you are going to make a fatal mistake.

Kent

[rv6ejguy]

Add me to the list of builders not installing the vane on a -10. One PITA I can do without. ASI works for me and keeping bank angles under 30 degrees below 500 feet. I thank Van's for thinking about our safety however.

[Kevin Horton]

ASI works for me and keeping bank angles under 30 degrees below 500 feet. I thank Van's for thinking about our safety however.

I'm betting quite a few guys who have stalled and spun at low altitude thought this way too. It is very easy to convince ourselves we are better than all those dumb smucks who crashed, but they probably thought they were pretty good too. It is easy to get distracted, and miss something that logically should be obvious (stick force and mushy controls at high AOA, leading to stall, or low voltage light on aircraft with electrically-dependent engine, resulting in engine failure, etc). Don't assume that you will always be perfectly alert. You won't.

If the RV-10 lacks good natural stall warning, then it would be prudent to install some sort of aural artificial stall warning. It should be aural stall warning, as you might not be looking at the light or AOA indicator if you inadvertently stall.

[MichRV10]

It's amazing how everyone tries to compare the 10 to 172's, or what other spam cans they can think of, but let me assure non RV-10 pilots that you are comparing apples to grapes. Two different planes altogether.
I have flown everything from Cessna 140 to Citation Bravo, and the 10 is in a league of it's own. The most affordable finest flying single engine aircraft on the market. See ya at Sun n Fun. Yes I'm flying my 10 to Lakeland.

75Hrs and still ticking.

[TSwezey]

I put the stall horn in. It has destroyed three pair of pants and the wings haven't even left the garage yet! I can see myself getting cut many times on the thing but I wouldn't leave it out.

[kentb]

Originally Posted by MichRV10

It's amazing how everyone tries to compare the 10 to 172's, or what other spam cans they can think of, but let me assure non RV-10 pilots that you are comparing apples to grapes. Two different planes altogether.
I have flown everything from Cessna 140 to Citation Bravo, and the 10 is in a league of it's own. The most affordable finest flying single engine aircraft on the market. See ya at Sun n Fun. Yes I'm flying my 10 to Lakeland.

75Hrs and still ticking.

Yes there are differances, but they can both kill you if you make a mistake.

Kent

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by Kevin Horton

I'm betting quite a few guys who have stalled and spun at low altitude thought this way too. It is very easy to convince ourselves we are better than all those dumb smucks who crashed, but they probably thought they were pretty good too. It is easy to get distracted, and miss something that logically should be obvious (stick force and mushy controls at high AOA, leading to stall, or low voltage light on aircraft with electrically-dependent engine, resulting in engine failure, etc). Don't assume that you will always be perfectly alert. You won't.

If the RV-10 lacks good natural stall warning, then it would be prudent to install some sort of aural artificial stall warning. It should be aural stall warning, as you might not be looking at the light or AOA indicator if you inadvertently stall.

I'm always locked on the ASI below 500 feet (eyes outside and back to ASI every 2 seconds) and l fly granny patterns at 85-90 knots until I'm on final. Most RV stall accidents have been from yankin' and bankin' down low at low AS or departure stalls with crazy deck angles. You just can't stall at 85 knots with low bank angles in an RV or even with lots of inattention letting it slip to 65 for that matter.

I'd be more worried about buying the farm flying night VFR or over the rocks which is why I don't.

If you think all the warnings in the world will save you from this sort of accident, you might want to read up on the USAF C5 crash last year. 3 pilots, AOA, GPWS and ASI and they still stalled it and crashed. Bad, bad piloting and CRM.

Yes, I could make the same mistake but I've had my scare and it's totally imprinted on me- forever.

[kentb]

Originally Posted by rv6ejguy

I'm always locked on the ASI below 500 feet and l fly granny patterns at 85-90 knots until I'm on final. Most RV stall accidents have been from yankin' and banking down low at low AS or departure stalls with crazy deck angles. You just can't stall at 85 knots with low bank angles in an RV or even with lots of inattention letting it slip to 65 for that matter.

I'd be more worried about buying the farm flying night VFR or over the rocks which is why I don't.

If you think all the warnings in the world will save you from this sort of accident, you might want to read up on the USAF C5 crash last year. 3 pilots, AOA, GPWS and ASI and they still stalled it and crashed. Bad, bad piloting and CRM.

Yes, I could make the same mistake but I've had my scare and it's totally imprinted on me- forever.

The members of VAF will be sympathetic to your family.

The ASI may not help you out if:
Your at a high alt airport.
Your at high temp.
Your engine is out and your making an off airport landing.
An ultralight appears in front of you on short final.
You have a bird strike on short final.

There are just to many possibilities to list.
Play it safe, have as much help as you can get. Having a stall warning may not save you, but it might.

Kent

[n5lp]

Originally Posted by kentb

...The ASI may not help you out if:
Your at a high alt airport.
Your at high temp.
Your engine is out and your making an off airport landing.
An ultralight appears in front of you on short final.
You have a bird strike on short final...

During all the listed scenerios, the ASI works entirely normally. The advantage of an aural stall warning during these situations would be just that, that it is aural and will warn you if your attention is diverted.

[rv6ejguy]

Originally Posted by kentb

The members of VAF will be sympathetic to your family.

The ASI may not help you out if:
Your at a high alt airport.
Your at high temp.
Your engine is out and your making an off airport landing.
An ultralight appears in front of you on short final.
You have a bird strike on short final.

There are just to many possibilities to list.
Play it safe, have as much help as you can get. Having a stall warning may not save you, but it might.

Kent

I'm not quite sure what your point is here? You are aware that that the IAS stall speed is essentially the same at all altitudes right? Not sure about the avoidance things here on short final. AOA or a stall warning won't save you here if you try to do a 45 degree banked turn and pull 3 Gs at 65 knots. My ASI did the job just fine in my actual engine out forced landing a while back. I regularly fly from a 4000MSL airport. I have avoided both birds and aircraft short final as well.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, vane type stall warning systems are insensitive to G/ bank angle influences in stall speed. I haven't tried an experiment with this. Maybe someone who has, can tell us?

One wonders how the other 5000 RVs flying have survived all this time.

I agree, stay sharp, manage your energy down low.