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  #1  
Old 06-10-2017, 04:29 PM
KatanaPilot KatanaPilot is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 621
Default Powder coating issue

Yesterday, when drilling the elevator horns on our newly built RV-7A tail, the power coating came off in large sections as the drill bit exited the hole.

I was easily able to flake off additional large pieces only to find poorly prepped and somewhat rusty bare metal underneath.

This was a bit disappointing as this was a new build tail with parts bought late in 2016. We will of course, clean up the bare metal and prime and paint the areas. We shouldn't have to and if this is the quality of the powder coated parts, I will try to get bare parts in the future and do them myself.

Anyone had a similar issue and how did you resolve it?
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Locust Grove, GA
DA20-A1 "Princess Amelia" - gone home to Amelia Island
RV-7A Phase 2
RV-10 under construction at Synergy Air South
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  #2  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:44 PM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 1,474
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Sounds like a bad individual part. I've had a few of Van's powdercoated parts chip slightly when drilled but nothing like you describe. I know there is a matching paint color but not sure how/where to find it.

I plan to eventually paint most of the powdercoated parts so have mostly scuffed them a bit and touched up with primer where there is bare metal.
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Turner Billingsley

RV-14A built/sold N14VB
RV-10 in progress as of May 2020

https://tbrv10.blogspot.com/
https://turnerb14a.blogspot.com/

Last edited by mturnerb : 06-10-2017 at 08:48 PM.
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  #3  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:50 PM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
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Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
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Found it:

https://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/paint_brands.pdf
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RV-14A built/sold N14VB
RV-10 in progress as of May 2020

https://tbrv10.blogspot.com/
https://turnerb14a.blogspot.com/
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  #4  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:34 PM
KatanaPilot KatanaPilot is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 621
Default Thanks!

I appreciate the info.

My gripe is the poor prep prior to powder coating. I would prefer bare metal versus an unknown adhesion to the substrate. I have powder coating equipment and if I had known, I would have recoated the parts myself. Now that the elevators are built, it's too late.
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Krea Ellis

Locust Grove, GA
DA20-A1 "Princess Amelia" - gone home to Amelia Island
RV-7A Phase 2
RV-10 under construction at Synergy Air South
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  #5  
Old 06-11-2017, 05:11 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
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Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KatanaPilot View Post
I appreciate the info.

My gripe is the poor prep prior to powder coating. I would prefer bare metal versus an unknown adhesion to the substrate. I have powder coating equipment and if I had known, I would have recoated the parts myself. Now that the elevators are built, it's too late.
I understand your frustration. It wouldn't surprise me if Van's is willing to go to the effort to send you bare parts. My perspective is this: 1) your experience is more about an individual part that came out bad than bad overall quality - Van's in this regard is at the mercy of their vendors and no quality control system is perfect 2) I see evidence continually that Van's is making efforts to improve quality and workmanship of parts. The newer fiberglass parts are a good example - the tips in my empennage kit were done with a newer style of gelcoat that sands nicely and has minimal pinholes, compared to what they've used in the past. 3) Van's customers are, overall, price sensitive (who isn't in aviation) and the "bang for the buck" is about as good as it gets.

Every time I have called Van's with an issue with a part the response has been professional, the response more/better than I expected, and always with someone who is articulate in my own language - in other words a superior customer experience.

I recently copied Mitch after I had called the parts department when I discovered that a part needed for a weekend marathon of work had been replaced in my kit by a very similarly numbered part (I missed the difference on my own inventory). Without my asking the part was shipped priority overnight on a Friday - I had it Saturday around 10AM and "built on".

Sorry to hijack your thread Krea - your frustration is evident but I'm betting Van's will do what they can to put it right.
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Turner Billingsley

RV-14A built/sold N14VB
RV-10 in progress as of May 2020

https://tbrv10.blogspot.com/
https://turnerb14a.blogspot.com/
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  #6  
Old 06-11-2017, 06:44 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KatanaPilot View Post
I appreciate the info.

My gripe is the poor prep prior to powder coating. I would prefer bare metal versus an unknown adhesion to the substrate. I have powder coating equipment and if I had known, I would have recoated the parts myself. Now that the elevators are built, it's too late.
Typical for 7 parts. All holes have to be reamed too. At least they are consistent, mine are from 2001. Probably safer than a spotty acid etch process for stressed parts, and all the 4130 parts are stressed.
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RV-7
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“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”

Last edited by BillL : 06-11-2017 at 06:47 AM.
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  #7  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:05 AM
KatanaPilot KatanaPilot is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 621
Default Thanks for the advice

Thanks Turner and Bill.

In the grand scheme, it's not a big deal - especially now that I know. I can deal with that.

Big difference in left and right welded yokes too - over 5 degrees. That required a full day of work at Synergy getting the elevator up and down limit stops perfect. Building the stops per plan wasn't even close! But hey, this is supposed to be fun! (And it is, even with a few frustrating events.)
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Locust Grove, GA
DA20-A1 "Princess Amelia" - gone home to Amelia Island
RV-7A Phase 2
RV-10 under construction at Synergy Air South
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  #8  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:27 AM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mturnerb View Post
My perspective is this: 1) your experience is more about an individual part that came out bad than bad overall quality - Van's in this regard is at the mercy of their vendors and no quality control system is perfect.
When you are at the "mercy" of your subcontractors it's a sure sign that you do not have proper written quality control specifications in place to ensure that you get a product that is consistent and always adequate for the application. I contacted Vans years ago when the powder coating on my slider canopy frame delaminated. I asked them what the specification was for the powder coating pretreatment and they said they did not have a written pretreatment specification.

Proper pretreatment/passivation of metals prior to powder coating is costly and it is naive to believe that powder coating subcontractors will not cut corners in this area if they are asked to compete purely on price without a written specification.

Many builders these days are using adhesives to bond their acrylic canopies to their powder coated slider frames and they have absolutely no empirical evidence that the powdercoating supplied by Vans is adequately bonded to the metal underneath or that the metal is properly passivated to prevent corrosion under-creep.
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Last edited by Captain Avgas : 06-11-2017 at 07:32 AM.
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  #9  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:43 AM
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flion flion is offline
 
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Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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Rather than prime and paint, I'd suggest you take them to a local powder coater and get them blasted and then re-coated. You'll really like powder coat on your steel pieces and you can even get them done to match your paint scheme instead of the default off-white. I've never had a problem with the pieces from Vans but I've done a few of the bare pieces (steps, for example) and even aluminum fab (you can find pictures of my reworked battery mount somewhere in these forums). I haul a box of parts to my local guy and it usually costs $20. When the nose-gear mod for the -10 came out, I had mine welded in (didn't trust the shim to just sit there in place) and then had the entire engine mount blasted and redone for less than $100 as I recall.
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  #10  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:39 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas View Post
When you are at the "mercy" of your subcontractors it's a sure sign that you do not have proper written quality control specifications in place to ensure that you get a product that is consistent and always adequate for the application. I contacted Vans years ago when the powder coating on my slider canopy frame delaminated. I asked them what the specification was for the powder coating pretreatment and they said they did not have a written pretreatment specification.

Proper pretreatment/passivation of metals prior to powder coating is costly and it is naive to believe that powder coating subcontractors will not cut corners in this area if they are asked to compete purely on price without a written specification.

Many builders these days are using adhesives to bond their acrylic canopies to their powder coated slider frames and they have absolutely no empirical evidence that the powdercoating supplied by Vans is adequately bonded to the metal underneath or that the metal is properly passivated to prevent corrosion under-creep.
You obviously know more about this topic than I do. It will be interesting to see if someone from Van's has any comments on this. I don't have a lot of data points, except for what I see here on the forum and observational experience: I recently came across a 20 or so year-old RV-6 and looked it over - the powdercoated parts (did not appear to be painted by the builder) appeared to be holding up well.
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Turner Billingsley

RV-14A built/sold N14VB
RV-10 in progress as of May 2020

https://tbrv10.blogspot.com/
https://turnerb14a.blogspot.com/

Last edited by mturnerb : 06-11-2017 at 09:12 AM.
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