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05-31-2017, 02:06 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 6
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Oversized hole question
Hi,
I have just started assembling the front spar of my RV9 horizontal stabilizer and have immediately found myself with problem of over sized holes.
Not too sure how this actually happened however I believe all 9 holes attaching the bracket to the spar are way too big. As I have tried to set the rivets I have been unable to make suitable shop heads with the head diameter being too small and height too small.
Below is an image to show the scale of the issue.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...HdreXA4QjEtb0E
Any help or guidance would be gratefully received.
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05-31-2017, 03:08 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
Posts: 4,348
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Get the Mil specs off of Vans site or the specs in AC-43-1b. They will have maximum allowable hole size for a given rivet diameter. If they meet spec, drive them. You can squeeze them slightly before insertion or squeeze them in the hole a bit then buck them.
If the hole doesn't meet spec, call Vans. It is likely they will approve a rivet the next size up if the edge distance and rise are within spec, also shown in the AC and Mil spec on Vans site.
__________________
Smart People do Stupid things all the time. I know, I've seen me do'em.
RV6 - Builder/Flying
Bucker Jungmann
Fiat G.46 -(restoration in progress, if I have enough life left in me)
RV1 - Proud Pilot.
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05-31-2017, 03:09 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 1,645
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Different part (elevator spar), but just did this myself .. like an hour ago .. $46 worth of replacement parts from Vans .. parts are cheap .. don't waste too much time trying to fix it, depending on where you are in the assembly sometimes it's easier just to scrap and rebuild.
__________________
RV-14A #140376
N196 (Flying)
2019 Bronze Lindy
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05-31-2017, 03:34 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: santa barbara, CA
Posts: 1,682
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Upsizing your rivets should solve the problem
erich
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05-31-2017, 04:33 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
Posts: 4,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erich weaver
Upsizing your rivets should solve the problem
erich
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While you are probably correct, it is a Spar, a very important one in a very critical area. Call the aircraft designer, Vans, on any spar deviations from plans or for repairs to Spars.
There are minimum distances for "rise" and spacing for a given rivet size. Bigger isn't always better even if edge distances are not an issue.
__________________
Smart People do Stupid things all the time. I know, I've seen me do'em.
RV6 - Builder/Flying
Bucker Jungmann
Fiat G.46 -(restoration in progress, if I have enough life left in me)
RV1 - Proud Pilot.
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05-31-2017, 06:47 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ramona, CA
Posts: 2,370
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I would make sure your drill bits are the correct size you think they are. Get some calipers and see what the diameters are for your #40 and #30 drill bits. A 3/32 rivet doesn't get a 3/32" hole!
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05-31-2017, 08:16 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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Order new parts and find out EXACTLY how this happened. Look at everything. Section 5, rivets, drill bits, until you can get to the root cause.
Then - don't do it again. It is more than a drill bit, before that there was an assumption, or guessing. Be sure you include your thinking and training in the evaluation.
It is part of the learning experience.
__________________
Bill
RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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06-02-2017, 02:30 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 6
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Thanks everyone for your help and advice.
I was able to use the specs as suggested to definitively conclude the holes were outwith the required dimensions.
I will be ordering the required new parts.
There is still the outstanding question about how this has happened which I am struggling to get to the bottom of.
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06-02-2017, 09:29 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
Posts: 4,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHippo
Thanks everyone for your help and advice.
I was able to use the specs as suggested to definitively conclude the holes were outwith the required dimensions.
I will be ordering the required new parts.
There is still the outstanding question about how this has happened which I am struggling to get to the bottom of.
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I have to agree with Bill L, as usual, and you. Your path with new parts is best. Even if Vans approved the upsized rivet solution, that isn't what was originally designed and proven in service for tens of thousands of hours across hundreds if not thousands of machines.
You will get to the bottom of how it happened.
Good catch. It shows you are paying attention and not just moving on. That is good discipline and I have no doubt you will produce a safe machine. This forum is full of examples of those that didn't.
__________________
Smart People do Stupid things all the time. I know, I've seen me do'em.
RV6 - Builder/Flying
Bucker Jungmann
Fiat G.46 -(restoration in progress, if I have enough life left in me)
RV1 - Proud Pilot.
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06-02-2017, 09:43 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHippo
Thanks everyone for your help and advice.
I was able to use the specs as suggested to definitively conclude the holes were outwith the required dimensions.
I will be ordering the required new parts.
There is still the outstanding question about how this has happened which I am struggling to get to the bottom of.
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Have you taken a build class? The one weekend and couple hundred bucks it will cost are well worth it on a $60K plus project. You'll be less stressed, enjoy your build more, and be much more confident in your ability to know when you need to question things and when you can build on. Good luck.
__________________
Steve M.
Ellensburg WA
RV-9 Flying, 0-320, Catto
Donation reminder: Jan. 2021
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