Time to throw in the towel...

[epaslick]

I'm sorry it took so long to reply to this thread. It did become a lot bigger than I expected, and I do appreciate all the support and kindness I have encountered here!

I have completed the vertical stabilizer and the rudder (although I am not completely satisfied with them, and may redo them in the future), and am currently working on the anti servo tabs, specifically dealing with riveting the control horns (HS-1220 L & R) to the ribs (HS-1222). I've also done the RV training project. However, the rivet squeezer and solid rivets are still my bane. I didn't really have much trouble with the v-stab (although I did have to replace the main spar and a couple brackets when I mis-drilled them), but the rudder and the AST are another story. I think part of my problem is with how thin and flexible the material is on the ribs. Even though I have them cleco'd together, when I squeeze the rivets I end up with 1) a gap between the horn and the rib and 2) the rib dimples around the shop head.

With the rudder I had the same issue with riveting the rib (R-1203) to the rudder horn (WD-1205). After spending time reading the forums, I put the manufactured head on the rib (thin) side with the shop head on the rudder horn (thick) side. This solved the problem with the rudder (although if Scott tells me this is unacceptable I will go back and change it). The AST control horns are countersunk so obviously I can't do this with them. I must figure out what I am doing wrong and correct my technique.

I've ordered another practice kit to to try to get back to basics with solid rivets, and will do it before I re-start the anti servo tabs.

On a completely unrelated note (and I will also post this in the Classified forum) I have an air conditioned room at UW-Oshkosh for all seven days of Airventure. The friend who was going to come with me had to back out so there will be a bed available if anyone needs it. The room is already paid for.

[tomkk]

Originally Posted by epaslick

... the rivet squeezer and solid rivets are still my bane.

I had a problem with this as well until I bit the bullet and got a Cleveland Main Squeeze rivet squeezer. Not only did the quality of my squeezed rivets suddenly improve but it was way easier to use. My original squeezer simply required too much muscle and that led to poor quality rivets. A bit pricey but, to me, well worth the cost. It turned the part of the job I really dreaded into one that was easy.

[Neal Trombley]

Main squeeze is a great tool, I have not wanted a pneumatic yet.... then again wings are coming up

having everything secure and well lit helps, you just need an EAA guy be there for you.

I would have not done another practice kit, but got a eaa guy or VAF guys favorite beer and see how easy it can be done,

I am in to my VS and scared every day, but my EAA pals show up or text me encouragement..

I wish you the best!!

[hjd3021]

Another trick I learned here on the forum was to put a piece of clear tubing over the shop head side of the rivet that is slightly longer than the rivet shank extending. What this does is that when you start squeezing the rivet the tubing compresses and pushes the thin metal together so there is no gap when you set the rivet. I had issues like you did with rivet expanding and thin metal not being tightly together. After using this technique have not had to his happen again. 1/8 or 3/16 iD tubing works best. Glad to hear you are continuing on.

[epaslick]

Originally Posted by tomkk

I had a problem with this as well until I bit the bullet and got a Cleveland Main Squeeze rivet squeezer. Not only did the quality of my squeezed rivets suddenly improve but it was way easier to use. My original squeezer simply required too much muscle and that led to poor quality rivets. A bit pricey but, to me, well worth the cost. It turned the part of the job I really dreaded into one that was easy.

That's one of the aggravating things, I AM using a Cleveland Main Squeeze...

[LittleJoeA]

Modifications to the Avery or any other rivet squeezer can make squeezing rivets easy. Search for my post "Improvements to the Avery Rivet Squeezer" This allows the squeezer to be operated with one hand and the parts can be positioned with the other hand.

[rv9builder]

If there's room, one way I’ve eliminated the gap is to use a Cleco side-grip clamp in addition to regular Clecoes to hold the two pieces of material together.

http://www.cleavelandtool.com/1-Clek.../#.WRkdynCSIvY

Put the side-grip clamp as close as possible to the rivet you are about to set and start to squeeze. You won’t be able to squeeze the rivet completely because the clamp will be in the way, but often times you can squeeze it enough that the rivet will start to expand and will hold the two pieces of metal together without a gap. You then remove the side-grip clamp and finish squeezing the rivet the usual way.

[Jim T]

Originally Posted by rv9builder

If there's room, one way I?ve eliminated the gap is to use a Cleco side-grip clamp in addition to regular Clecoes to hold the two pieces of material together.

http://www.cleavelandtool.com/1-Clek.../#.WRkdynCSIvY

Put the side-grip clamp as close as possible to the rivet you are about to set and start to squeeze. You won?t be able to squeeze the rivet completely because the clamp will be in the way, but often times you can squeeze it enough that the rivet will start to expand and will hold the two pieces of metal together without a gap. You then remove the side-grip clamp and finish squeezing the rivet the usual way.

I've done the same thing and it works quite well. I've also used small C clamps with the same result.

Jim

[subpar_bucker]

I'm not sure this is something that you can afford, but as a first time builder I received a very large amount of help/instruction/confidence by attending one of the synergy air classes last fall before starting on my RV-12:

http://synergyair.com/builder-classes/

That and having a mentor from my local EAA chapter has been an huge positive start to my build. We are just about to finish the wings this week.

The folks at Synergy build 12's you can fly away. They are very patient and instructive and if it comes to it will probably be able to tell you if you are actually capable of building safely or not (like everyone else, I think you'll finish successfully - but I have made it a habit of telling everyone who helps me: if you think I'm not capable of doing this safely please tell me even if it hurts my feelings).

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

I think throwing in the towel is a valid option if that's what you want to do; none of us can tell you how you should feel.

However, the fact you said you're ordering replacement parts tells me you're not ready to throw in the towel.

So, what you need is some builder's motivation.

Over the years a few times I've tried to organize a national day of RV flying where pilots of completed RVs take builders for a ride as part of the necessary therapy of the long process of building.

Why it's never taken off -- no pun intended -- I don't know, but let's get you in the air in an RV-12 to see if it's something that can recharge things.

Let's see if there's someone in Arkansas will to fly over and spend some time with you (if I still had my RV, I'd fly down from MN).

Anyone?

In the meantime, drop me a phone number and maybe we can chat on the phone and I can be available as your personal sounding board and talk you through things when you need that.

As for your rivet squeezer problem, I know exactly what parts you're talking about and I know exactly what your problem is you're having and why you're having it and I can fix it for you in about 2 seconds and you'll never have to worry about it again. You do NOT need to do anything fancy or out of the ordinary and you don't have to order anything expensive. The problem is the part you're trying to squeeze isn't being held down. Don't go spending a much of money on a new squeezer.

On the RV-12 on those rivets you're talking about -- and don't ask me why -- the tendency of the work is to turn as you squeeze, which puts the rivet head out of alignment with your squeezer. That's going to happen every time; ask me how I know.

Squeezing these rivets won't work (or at least it won't work well), unless you clamp down the assembly and then squeeze. Also you want to orient the squeezer so at the beginning of the squeeze you're putting pressure on the shop head (as I recall the parts you describe, I actually had to pull slightly on the squeezer) I can walk you through it.