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  #31  
Old 07-23-2011, 10:57 AM
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N9331v N9331v is offline
 
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Default Tinman451

Very well said.
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  #32  
Old 07-23-2011, 03:27 PM
Mile High Relic Mile High Relic is offline
 
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Location: Denver area
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Default

Good points to remember, but my understanding of the Life Insurance policies I have is that the below is not the case. I'll admit that I have only researched the two policies I have, but both would pay if I was a passenger in a plane, experimental or otherwise. With my work policy, the aviation exclusion only applies to the AD&D portion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman451 View Post
I also made a point of informing them that their life insurance policy would most likely not pay up if they died during our flight.
The Aviation Exclusion I have in front of me says it won't pay if I am "A pilot, officer, or member of the crew of the aircraft, or is participating in aeronautic or aviation training."

YMMV
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  #33  
Old 07-23-2011, 05:16 PM
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Brantel Brantel is offline
 
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Most of us are aware that most standard life insurance policies exclude the time where you are PIC of an aircraft but I am not sure the occasional hop with a friend in an experimental as a passenger will leave you with without coverage.

What say ye insurance experts?
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  #34  
Old 07-24-2011, 05:38 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
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Default LaFayette Life Ins.

I'm in the ag aviation business and have a VERY hard time finding coverage while I'm Spraying!

Along came LaFayette Life, years ago and offered 100% coverage during the course of my ag work and any other commercial or private airplane flight.

LaFayette is in LaFayette, Ind.

Best,
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  #35  
Old 07-24-2011, 09:11 AM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Mildly off-topic, but a number of years and three jobs ago my employer changed from self-insuring to using one of the large insurance companies for all the benefits. The company had about 300 people at the time, of which about a dozen were pilots... HR didn't know this until we all got our policies and read them. The new policies excluded pilots left right and center from most injury or life insurance benefits.

We raised the issue with the HR department, who went back to the insurer. They amended the policy to remove all pilot exclusions, at *no charge*. That was the only time i've ever had coverage as a pilot. When we switched insurers four years later, the next company wouldn't change it.
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  #36  
Old 04-22-2017, 08:54 AM
PG13 PG13 is offline
 
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Location: Fresno
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I have a $500,000 policy with Protective Insurance for $500 a year that includes dying in a small airplane and scuba diving, and motorcycle track days.
As a CFI, I do a lot of flight reviews and flight instruction for free, and now have my own RV, so wanted to make sure I was covered. It wasn't a problem finding life insurance. Liability insurance might be another story.
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  #37  
Old 04-23-2017, 12:47 AM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Default Limit of liability

In Switzerland we are encouraged by our insurance company to give any passenger a kind of ticket that triggers some protections and limits to liability.

It says this on the "ticket":

Quote:
Carriage on the basis of this title of transport is subject to the liability provisions stipulated in the Ordinance on Air Transport (OATr) of August 17, 2005 for domestic and international transportation that
is applicable at the time of travel and, where applicable, to the Montreal Convention of May 28, 1999 and the EU Ordinance no. 785/2004 of April 21, 2004. These pieces of legislation govern the liability of air carriers for death or bodily injury of a passenger, for the loss or damage of baggage and for delay. Liability may be limited.
1. For losses up to 100,000 Special Drawing Rights (SDR) the liability may not be excluded or limited. Beyond this, the air carrier may exempt itself from liability under certain grounds for exoneration, defined by the legislation. For death or bodily injury, an advance payment is due for each passenger within 15 days from the date of identification of natural persons entitled to such compensation. In the event of death, at least 16,000 SDR are due.
2. Liability for destruction, loss, damage, or delay to baggage, is limited to 1,000 SDR per passenger.
3. Liability for delayed travel is limited to 4,150 SDR per passenger.
4. Benefits paid to persons entitled to compensation for damages from any passenger accident insurance policies the air carrier or aircraft owner may have taken out, and advance payments that the air carrier may be obligated to make under the applicable liability provisions must be credited in full against liability claims.
Here is a PDF:

http://www.reznitsky.info/files/fl/a...-transport.pdf

No idea if this is limited to Switzerland or global.

The key thing that triggers the "protection" is that the passenger has to pay something, like 1 dollar. This is apparently ok, since we're allowed to have a passenger pay up the their fair share of the trip's expenses.
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  #38  
Old 04-24-2017, 02:00 AM
OkieDave OkieDave is offline
 
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Location: Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APACHE 56 View Post
I had the same issue some 20 years ago and went to an Orlando airshow performer/lawyer who told me "they weren't worth the paper they were written on" but he'd be glad to take my money and compose one for me. He explained that your passenger cannot sign away the rights of an interested third party. So your estate could be sued, the Hold Harmless paper notwithstanding. Perhaps the laws have changed but I doubt it. I recommend you seek advice from an attorney in your state that specialises in asset/estate protection.
I sought advice from one such attorney and he said (in very condensed terms) "get at least a million dollar liability policy; get anything that can hurt someone (e.g., water craft, aircraft, automobile) in one persons name only; put you paper assets (e.g., saving account etc) in both yours and your wifes name." That is specific to Florida, your state is likely to be different.
Yes, it may vary by state. As a rule, you can protect your home/real property this way; it's called "tenancy by the entirety," and it can only exist between husband and wife, but it does indemnify property so held from the liabilities of one of the spouses but not the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinIndy View Post
One of my lawyer friends suggested putting the aircraft into the possession of an LLC in addition to the previously recommended insurance, etc.
Won't help. An LLC protects the members from the torts of their employees, but won't protect their assets from their own torts. If you, as a member, augur in due to your own culpable tort, they can come after your personal assets, including your interest in the LLC. Moreover, when you commingle the assets of a corporate form with your own personal assets--including using corporate assets for personal use, such as using the plane for your own recreation--it becomes easy to "pierce the corporate veil," making your personal assets available to satisfy corporate liability. To avoid that, you'd have to A) strictly follow the corporate form (including having appropriate officers, having an annual meeting, etc.), B) rent the aircraft from the corporation for your personal use, and C) keep proper accounting, including paying appropriate taxes for the LLC (which should be nil, or nearly so, if you set your pricing right).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel View Post
If all these liability waivers are no good, why the heck does everything that involves the slightest amount of risk require one to participate?
Because you don't have to be holding four aces if they think you're holding four aces. The easiest lawsuit to win is the one that's never filed; if you can convince the potential plaintiff that he doesn't have a chance, you win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkjprice View Post
I sought advice from one such attorney and he said (in very condensed terms) "get at least a million dollar liability policy; get anything that can hurt someone (e.g., water craft, aircraft, automobile) in one persons name only; put you paper assets (e.g., saving account etc) in both yours and your wifes name."

I am an insurance agent in the State of Utah and to add a $1,000,000 personal Liability insurance policy to your existing policy is usually less than $200 a year and can be lumped in with your auto premium.

In my opinion - it is cheap peace of mind if you intend to take passengers with you or not. You could be solo, and have a problem and have to set down in a less than desirable location, and injure someone there. You just never know when you will need the insurance that you didn't take.
This is sound advice.

Disclaimer: I am a lawyer, licensed in the State of Oklahoma. I am not your lawyer. The law varies based upon jurisdiction and specific facts. This is not legal advice, and won't become legal advice until you pay my retainer...and I have an airplane habit to support .

Last edited by OkieDave : 04-24-2017 at 02:05 AM.
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  #39  
Old 04-24-2017, 05:06 AM
sibriggs sibriggs is offline
 
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Location: Concord, NH
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Default How much coveage do you really have?

I attended a flight instructor refresher clinic a while back and was surprised and disappointed to learn some insurance facts.

One of the participants in the FRIC was an insurance executive. He stated that the amount of liability coverage one carried could be deceiving. Say for instance you had $100K coverage.

If an accident occurred and you were sued, the insurance company has the right to employ their own lawyers to defend the policy and you. Everyone knows how expensive an experienced law firm can be, so.... the $100K coverage pays for the lawyers at whatever rates apply... decreasing the remaining amount of the $100K.

If and when the $100K is used up on lawyer fees the insurance company walks away and you are responsible for the payment of future fees, medical expenses and damages.

I have never confirmed with an insurance company, but the information but it seems consistent with today's business practices and the way US companies focus on the bottom line.
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  #40  
Old 04-24-2017, 06:41 AM
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uk_figs uk_figs is offline
 
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Default Life Insurance

I have had a term life insurance policy with Prudential for a number of years and it specifically covers my activities in a experimental aircraft. If I remember correctly my prior policy did not but things changed a few years ago.
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