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04-17-2017, 05:40 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SC & CA
Posts: 907
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Recent Loss of GPS Signal...
Just a few reflections on reliance on GPS navigation: Last week I helped my friend, Jim, fly his newly painted Baron from Eloy, AZ (south of PHX) back to Charleston, SC. Heading eastbound out of El Paso on our IFR filed GPS route, we lost GPS signal (not unusual in that area due to military activities). Reported the loss of signal and was cleared direct to Salt Flats VOR. Our routing after that was about a 300 nm GPS direct leg to Waco, TX. I told Jim that we should most likely get the signal back about 100 miles east of Salt Flats and we did. It was nice to have the VOR capability (while it lasts).
On day two of our travel, for most of the route, both i-pads went to no-data from Waco to Charleston. Jim is with AT&T and I’m with Verizon.
Of course having center available for course guidance is comforting, assuming you are on frequency and high enough to communicate with them. Having a GPS signal is anything but reliable. With all the GPS only panels going into planes…keep those dead reckoning skills current!
__________________
Tom Valenzia
RV8 (Sold)
RV12 Jabiru 2200 Powered (Sold)
Dues contributor since 2007
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself...Anonymous
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04-17-2017, 08:19 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,145
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I lost GPS lock for about 2 hours out here in west Texas between KMAF and KSJT yesterday afternoon, KLN94 certified install in a 172.
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid 
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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04-17-2017, 08:51 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomVal
It was nice to have the VOR capability (while it lasts).
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As it stands now, less than half of all VORs will be decomissioned by 2025. That's a long time, and even after that there will still be a significant number of VORs available. Knowing de'd reckoning is useful - knowing how to navigate via a VOR will remain just as useful for the foreseeable future.
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Brad Benson, Maplewood MN.
RV-6A N164BL, Flying since Nov 2012!
If you're not making mistakes, you're probably not making anything
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04-17-2017, 09:52 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Landing field "12VA"
Posts: 1,530
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So...
does this military diddling with GPS reception affect ground-based units as well, or is it a jamming signal that's beamed upwards in a cone-shaped pattern and not very widespread on the surface?
Wondering how it affects the millions of users on the nation's highways with their smartphones and Nuvi's... and if it's possible for a GPS-dependent pilot like myself (no VOR capability in my plane at present) to under-fly the zone of exclusion if necessary.
There's always ded-reckoning, but there's not always VOR capability 
__________________
Bill Boyd
Hop-Along Aerodrome (12VA)
RV-6A - N30YD - Built '98 / sold '20
RV-10 - N130YD reserved - under construction
donating monthly to the VAF - thanks, Doug
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04-17-2017, 10:28 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Maple Valley, WA
Posts: 273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Boyd
does this military diddling with GPS reception affect ground-based units as well, or is it a jamming signal that's beamed upwards in a cone-shaped pattern and not very widespread on the surface?
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If you pull one of the notices, you'll find that the range of the outage will be different dependent on altitude. But, even at the surface they normally claim possible outages up to 50-100 miles.
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04-17-2017, 10:39 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ramona, Ca
Posts: 259
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Tom,
I don't understand your comment about carriers AT&T and Verizon. Unless I'm missing something, GPS should have nothing to do with the carrier.
__________________
Bill RV-9A Flying
FFI- Flight Lead
N99WC
Ramona, CA (KRNM)
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04-17-2017, 11:00 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Boyd
There's always ded-reckoning, but there's not always VOR capability 
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Not when you're IMC or on top.
Both need to be in a pilot's toolbox.
__________________
Brad Benson, Maplewood MN.
RV-6A N164BL, Flying since Nov 2012!
If you're not making mistakes, you're probably not making anything
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04-17-2017, 12:13 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Landing field "12VA"
Posts: 1,530
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Agree there!
Some of us don't venture on top or into IMC if we can ever help it (but will one day when equipped & trained to do so).
__________________
Bill Boyd
Hop-Along Aerodrome (12VA)
RV-6A - N30YD - Built '98 / sold '20
RV-10 - N130YD reserved - under construction
donating monthly to the VAF - thanks, Doug
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04-17-2017, 12:43 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SC & CA
Posts: 907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillC
Tom,
I don't understand your comment about carriers AT&T and Verizon. Unless I'm missing something, GPS should have nothing to do with the carrier.
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You are correct, I just wanted to point out on the second day of our trip both I-pads stopped receiving data. No radar coverage or wx updates but had moving map and gps position. Don't know why but that's what happened.
__________________
Tom Valenzia
RV8 (Sold)
RV12 Jabiru 2200 Powered (Sold)
Dues contributor since 2007
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself...Anonymous
Last edited by TomVal : 04-17-2017 at 01:58 PM.
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04-18-2017, 07:19 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bennington, Vermont USA
Posts: 1,301
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Rock Island RI
Anyone ever experienced GPS outage in the eastern Long Island sound area? I did a couple of years ago. Very unnerving. It started working again 10 minutes later but I was glad that I'd drawn a line on a sectional for the trip.
Jim Sharkey
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