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03-05-2017, 10:46 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Daleville, AL
Posts: 343
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ellyson
Brian, it was very easy for me since I didn't do it, but I watched my mechanic do it. It's obviously easier than adding fuel injection. Did not have to change the airbox or cowling. A little routing mods for throttle and mixture. Getting the idle mixture right is a little tricky initially to keep the engine running smooth, but once set, I've had years of no trouble. When it got too lean once, the engine would stumble at idle, but an 1/8 turn on the adjustment screw cleared it up. The idle adjustment on the TB is independent of normal operating mixture adjustment in the cockpit. Pat Coggins (Hog) converted to a TB and posted the experience on this site. I didn't do a good comparison between the carb and TB since I rarely flight straight and level very long to find out. Randy King was flying Sportsman with a carb, and was scaring us to death with the engine sputtering and quiting. He's going to fuel injection.
Hope this helps,
Bill (willyeyeball)
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03-12-2017, 11:04 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyEyeBall
Brian, it was very easy for me since I didn't do it, but I watched my mechanic do it. It's obviously easier than adding fuel injection. Did not have to change the airbox or cowling. A little routing mods for throttle and mixture. Getting the idle mixture right is a little tricky initially to keep the engine running smooth, but once set, I've had years of no trouble. When it got too lean once, the engine would stumble at idle, but an 1/8 turn on the adjustment screw cleared it up. The idle adjustment on the TB is independent of normal operating mixture adjustment in the cockpit. Pat Coggins (Hog) converted to a TB and posted the experience on this site. I didn't do a good comparison between the carb and TB since I rarely flight straight and level very long to find out. Randy King was flying Sportsman with a carb, and was scaring us to death with the engine sputtering and quiting. He's going to fuel injection.
Hope this helps,
Bill (willyeyeball)
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Thanks Bill. If I was retired and had all the time in the world, I would give it a try. But for now, I barely even have enough time to fly. I'm half-way decent with tools, but no where near being a real builder or an A/P, so I have to be very cautious about deciding which projects I can take on. If your mechanic (or anyone else who's reading this) is interested in installing it for me, please PM me! 
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03-12-2017, 01:26 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,628
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No power? No problem!
Two years ago I was flying at the Kathy Jaffe Challenge contest in New Jersey. There I met 79 year old Randol Webb, flying his bone stock J-3 Cub. Randol regularly flies in the Sportsman category in his CJ-6 and occasionally in the Cub. "I have to take two breaks when flying Sportsman in the Cub", he told me. "That's just to re-start the engine and climb for altitude prior to the next maneuver!"
Having a carbureted engine does NOT stop Randol. No reason it should stop you!
(Having said that, I do appreciate fuel injection!) 
__________________
Ron Schreck
IAC National Judge
RV-8, "Miss Izzy", 2250 Hours - Sold
VAF 2021 Donor
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03-12-2017, 10:01 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronschreck
Two years ago I was flying at the Kathy Jaffe Challenge contest in New Jersey. There I met 79 year old Randol Webb, flying his bone stock J-3 Cub. Randol regularly flies in the Sportsman category in his CJ-6 and occasionally in the Cub. "I have to take two breaks when flying Sportsman in the Cub", he told me. "That's just to re-start the engine and climb for altitude prior to the next maneuver!"
Having a carbureted engine does NOT stop Randol. No reason it should stop you!
(Having said that, I do appreciate fuel injection!) 
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Ron, so does that mean that I should be able to do the entire primary sequence without the engine stumbling or quitting? And if it quits, is it b/c of poor technique/ energy management on my part?
I find that on the inverted 45-degree down line of the half Cuban-8, I need a hair of forward stick to keep it straight and that is enough to cause my engine to quit. I want to continue practicing, but am getting discouraged (or at least annoyed) b/c I have not yet been able to do the entire sequence without the engine hesitating or quitting.
Brian
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03-13-2017, 04:22 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1flyingyogi
Ron, so does that mean that I should be able to do the entire primary sequence without the engine stumbling or quitting? And if it quits, is it b/c of poor technique/ energy management on my part?
I find that on the inverted 45-degree down line of the half Cuban-8, I need a hair of forward stick to keep it straight and that is enough to cause my engine to quit. I want to continue practicing, but am getting discouraged (or at least annoyed) b/c I have not yet been able to do the entire sequence without the engine hesitating or quitting.
Brian
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The half Cuban and the aileron roll, properly done should cause your carbureted engine to quit momentarily and you will likely throw some oil on the belly. I know that's disconcerting at first, but the engine will recover quickly and the oil wipes off. The alternative is to sacrifice a proper figure and a better grade for carrying slight positive G during those rolls. Once you get hooked on IAC competition you will be saving $$$ for fuel injection and an inverted oil system! Have fun!
__________________
Ron Schreck
IAC National Judge
RV-8, "Miss Izzy", 2250 Hours - Sold
VAF 2021 Donor
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04-04-2017, 07:41 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arvada, CO
Posts: 118
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Ellison TB
Just FWIW, I finished my o-360 RV 7 almost 2 years ago with an Ellison throttle body, and had no issues with the install at all. It bolts on and goes. The only hassle was the need to fab a bell crank to slide the throttle on my particular install. Took about 3 hours to fab, and I'm slow! Love the way the thing runs in any attitude, super simple, and requires no attention. The Ellison came highly recommended to me by several acro pilots who had used them in the past. Glad I did! In fact, I bought a spare just in case, but it is collecting dust! If you want details, I'd be happy to send pics of my setup. Just pm me.
Good luck and keep rockin!
Jim
__________________
Jimzims
2015 RV7 I0-360 FP
Dues gladly paid, 2020
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04-04-2017, 10:24 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimzim
Just FWIW, I finished my o-360 RV 7 almost 2 years ago with an Ellison throttle body, and had no issues with the install at all. It bolts on and goes. The only hassle was the need to fab a bell crank to slide the throttle on my particular install. Took about 3 hours to fab, and I'm slow! Love the way the thing runs in any attitude, super simple, and requires no attention. The Ellison came highly recommended to me by several acro pilots who had used them in the past. Glad I did! In fact, I bought a spare just in case, but it is collecting dust! If you want details, I'd be happy to send pics of my setup. Just pm me.
Good luck and keep rockin!
Jim
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Thanks Jim. PM sent.
__________________
Brian RV4
0-320 ~ 170hp, AFP fuel injection, EFII Electronic Ignition, Raven inverted oil, Sterba wood prop, 970lbs empty
Dues Happily Paid
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04-05-2017, 06:53 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Somerville, Tn and Little Rock, Ar
Posts: 116
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Ellison pilot report
I installed an Ellison EFS 4-5 on my RV-8 with an O-360 about a year ago and have been doing a lot of flying and tinkering with it since. At the same time I bought an EFS-4 for my RV-3 with an O-320 that was undergoing a major redo. I have flown the 8 for about 150 hours or so and the 3 for just about one hour as I test flew it for the first time yesterday. Here are my impressions so far of the two units.
The EFS 4-5 is about 1 1/2 inches shorter than the carburetor so it requires either a spacer to be fabricated to keep the airbox in alignment with the cowl, or fiberglass work on the cowl. Supposedly intake turbulence is the boogie man for these units and so far I would agree. I started with a simple, milled aluminum spacer between the Ellison and the airbox. Worked great at low power, but had poor distribution of air to the cylinders as evidenced by large variations in CHT and EGT, as well as a noticeable loss in power during time to climb.
Next, I bought air straighteners from Aircraft Spruce and added one at the throat of the Ellison. I was very concerned because it was sized for the EFS-4 so was too small for the larger 4-5. I found on the net that it should still flew enough air so tried it anyway. Distribution was marginally better, but still not right. Of course the power was obviously not better since there was a restriction in the inlet.
Next, a friend helped me fabricate a new spacer, much wider than the other so the unit could have a larger volume plenum to breath from with no obstructions in the way of the intake. I was stoked about this and thought it would solve the problem, but unfortunately it's worse than ever. Now there is a noticeable shake at high throttle openings and over 200 degree split in EGT between the front and rear cylinders.
The next plan, which I haven't done yet, is to add fabricated vanes inside the air box and a deflector for the front of the air filter to try and straighten the air more.
The RV-3 has the old style inlet with no airbox. It's a scoop directly to the intake, which according to the Ellison manual should be the worst configuration. I bought a new Vans airbox, fiberglass scoop for the cowl, and the glass to do the entire cowl mod and new airbox. With the difficulties on the 8, I decided to try flying the 3 without doing those mods to get a baseline.
The EFS 4, unlike the 4-5, is exactly the same size as the carburetor. This means that the old intake and cowl bolted right up with no modification at all. Additionally, the air straightener that I bought was sized for this smaller Ellison unit, so I added it since this intake configuration was listed as the worst. Long story short on this one is that the first two flights seem fine. Good power and smooth at all throttle settings. Now, to be fair, I've only put an hour on it and haven't tested nearly as thoroughly as I have the other unit, but first impressions are really good and if I can't find any bad habits I'm going to leave it alone and not do the new intake scoop and airbox.
A friend has the EFS 4 on an RV-4 with the newer scoop and airbox and loves it. I'm inclined to think the problem may be that the 4-5 is more finicky. I certainly wish Ellison had an intake box for it that would just work. One that you could just hook up an air hose and the box would solve the intake problems.
As a final note, the starting, idling, and lower throttle power delivery is fine. Also, high power and low angle of attack is acceptable, so aerobatics and fun flying is great. Trying to climb to higher altitudes with the throttle open and nose up is when things are at their worst in the RV-8 install.
Hope this helps someone and if anyone has a suggestion, I'm all ears.
Tommy
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