RV-8QB: SB 16-12-16 Missing Center Section Bolts

[rv8gibbo]

Originally Posted by AAflyer

My buddies and I made a group order of these expensive bolts, thinking it was the "smart way to go". They can be installed like blind rivets; you only need access to one side of the material. Seemed too good to be true...and it was. We've discovered,...now that we have the bolts in hand, that they do not fit through the holes! They are about 6/1000 too big.
To ream, or not to ream...that is the question.

Mine where tight but it was because of the build up of paint when I sprayed the inside, I used a reamer by hand and the holes where free without too much effort and a slight bit of persuasion.

[AAflyer]

Originally Posted by rv8gibbo

Mine where tight but it was because of the build up of paint when I sprayed the inside, I used a reamer by hand and the holes where free without too much effort and a slight bit of persuasion.

Would you please confirm you used the VISULOK blind bolts from Monoram Aerospace?

[Capfo]

The 8 bolts towards the middle of the box are reasonably simple to replace. Use a torch and some cheap wrenches and you can fashion one that will reach them without a great deal of effort. I have replaced them on several aircraft now and found that it is not as difficult as I first thought.

The four outer bolts require a bit more effort. The SB recommends cutting a hole up to 1" inboard of the nut plate for the seat ramp. I have found that cutting the hole outboard of the nut plate gives better access. I have not found it necessary to cut a hole in the belly skin as recommended in the SB. Access to ream the bolt holes would be even more difficult.

[Jeff Hagg]

Originally Posted by RV8JD

Service Bulletin 16-12-16

Date Released: December 16, 2016

Subject: RV-8QB Missing Center Section Bolts

Time of Compliance: Before further flight

http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb16-12-16.pdf

I completed the SB 16-12-16 last weekend and here is my recommendations.
Drill the 3/4 to 1" hole as documented in the SB, do not drill the bottom holes, "not necessary". I would then drill 4 small 3/8 holes above the upper nut locations, these are for viewing. You will need to make special wrenches. Weld a reduced height 7/16 socket on to a rod about 18", this will help you pick up the 2 lower outer nut/bolts. You will also need to make a left and right 90 degree tool to attach the upper nuts. Fish these through the 1" holes You may need to make two sets of varied length. Do not try to add washers to the inside nuts, the length of the bolts will not allow you to add these washers and still have 1 1/2 thread showing passed the nut. I will attach photos after I figure out how to. Good luck, this was not an easy task

[goatflieg]

My RV-8QB fuselage is serial #83507; received 2/17. The twelve bolts were missing from the forward center section, and today I started work on getting them in place. Inserting the bolts fore-to-aft was easy, but trying to get the washers and nuts on the bolts with the access limited by the assembled center section seemed a nightmare. I also do not want to drill the 1" access holes if I can avoid it. It was easier to guide the bolts in from the back side using a flashlight and magnetic stick, and get the nuts and washers on the bolts from the front. Now all twelve bolts, nuts and washers are in place and ready for tightening and final torque. Before I do, I will probably call Van's tomorrow and double check to make sure installing the bolts backwards won't cause a problem. I know from reading this thread that other builders have done it this way, and I already know what I'll do to modify tools to get the job done. It will also be easier to mark the nuts with torque paint when finished. But I thought I'd check here: can anyone think of a reason why I shouldn't do it this way? As far as I can tell, the only "rule" I'm breaking is the traditional "insert bolts from fore to aft". Are there any other clearance issues involved in having the nuts on the front outside of the center section?

(No response here, but checked with Van's; approved)

[tomusa]

Just wondered what Van said about having the bolts face forward. Thanks, Tom

[xblueh2o]

Originally Posted by goatflieg

My RV-8QB fuselage is serial #83507; received 2/17. The twelve bolts were missing from the forward center section, and today I started work on getting them in place. Inserting the bolts fore-to-aft was easy, but trying to get the washers and nuts on the bolts with the access limited by the assembled center section seemed a nightmare. I also do not want to drill the 1" access holes if I can avoid it. It was easier to guide the bolts in from the back side using a flashlight and magnetic stick, and get the nuts and washers on the bolts from the front. Now all twelve bolts, nuts and washers are in place and ready for tightening and final torque. Before I do, I will probably call Van's tomorrow and double check to make sure installing the bolts backwards won't cause a problem. I know from reading this thread that other builders have done it this way, and I already know what I'll do to modify tools to get the job done. It will also be easier to mark the nuts with torque paint when finished. But I thought I'd check here: can anyone think of a reason why I shouldn't do it this way? As far as I can tell, the only "rule" I'm breaking is the traditional "insert bolts from fore to aft". Are there any other clearance issues involved in having the nuts on the front outside of the center section?

(No response here, but checked with Van's; approved)

Are your wings not installed yet?
If the wings are not installed there should be no reason to drill the spar or belly holes. I placed the washers on the installed bolts using a washer wrench taped to a stick but a long magnet would also work. To get the nuts on I taped the wrench to the other end of my long stick and then had a little piece of tape to hold the nut in the box end of the wrench. I would post a picture but, you know, photo bucket.

[goatflieg]

Originally Posted by tomusa

Just wondered what Van said about having the bolts face forward. Thanks, Tom

They said it was not an issue for these bolts; it would still meet the requirements of the SB.

[akarmy]

Just a quick update to this old thread. I had the "pleasure" of helping a good friend install these 12 bolts this weekend! What fun. Once he had all of it opened up and removed the center control column and sticks I was ready to work. Took 5 hours. We were able to get all 12 in without any holes just using the center access hole. 10 of them went in from the back (inside the spar box) and 2 had to go in from the front due to interference with the nuts on the rear spar that hold the seat rib in place.

The only thing that we found to work was to use a camera (I had a cheap USB camera) and put it on a stick. Then use 12" forceps with a slight notch ground in about 1/4" from the tip to hold the bolt. Then with one hand on the camera and one on the bolt you put it in the hole (Mars rover style)

Boy it feels good to have the last one go in place. And the defeat you feel when you bump the bolt that's half way in the hole is real

But in the end it's doable if you have the right tools at hand.

Thanks to those of you that posted above, we took lots of those ideas in mind before starting. (now how long will these bruises take to heal on my forearms).

PS, even though I have a slow build 8, after finishing up his, I had to go home and take a peek with a mirror to make sure mine were in place... WHEW.

[Pilot135pd]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hagg

I completed the SB 16-12-16 last weekend and here is my recommendations.
Drill the 3/4 to 1" hole as documented in the SB, do not drill the bottom holes, "not necessary". I would then drill 4 small 3/8 holes above the upper nut locations, these are for viewing. You will need to make special wrenches. Weld a reduced height 7/16 socket on to a rod about 18", this will help you pick up the 2 lower outer nut/bolts. You will also need to make a left and right 90 degree tool to attach the upper nuts. Fish these through the 1" holes You may need to make two sets of varied length. Do not try to add washers to the inside nuts, the length of the bolts will not allow you to add these washers and still have 1 1/2 thread showing passed the nut. I will attach photos after I figure out how to. Good luck, this was not an easy task

Any chance you can post the pictures? Anyone else have any pictures they can post or email to me?

I paid a well known RV-8 builder and current A&P-IA to do my pre-buy inspection a year ago (more than 2 years after the SB came out) and I specifically told him I know they're not mandatory but I want you to check all SBs, but he didn't catch this. I can understand why he didn't because I'm sure he went to Van's website and looked up RV-8 SBs and found it says that it only applies to QB planes so why even open the SB? I would have but I'm not a mechanic and I guess I have more free time to read than others.

Good thing my well established procedure for annuals in all of my prior aircraft has always been alternate between IAs during every inspection so what one misses the next one might catch. Yes it's more expensive but my life is worth it. I'm happy I stuck to my beliefs because today after 455 hours flying, built by an A&P-IA and a pre-buy inspection done by another RV builder A&P-IA-CFI, the person doing this inspection found that I'm missing the 12 bolts !!!

What I don't understand is WHY hasn't Van's changed the applicability of the SB to ALL of the RV-8s? Why does it only apply to the QB when it's clear that it's happening with slow build RV-8s too? Even though slow builders don't seem to notice the 12 extra bolts laying around when they're done, I think Van's should change the SB or make some notes in their plans to make sure people pay special attention to this.