Poor Riveting

[cccjbr6]

Thanks for posting Vic. Your posts about bad build quality, bad maintenance, and other problems you encounter are especially valuable to non-builders like me. Could these posts be assembled in dedicated "stickies" by subject (or even better in their own forum in the education section) so they would be easy to find and study?

[vic syracuse]

Thanks for the comments, Chris. That's a good idea. I need to motivate myself to contribute once a week or so with some of my findings so we all can learn.

Vic

[vic syracuse]

Here's another one on an RV-7 found this past week. It had been flying for 7 years, and allegedly maintained by an A&P. Personally, I think the riveting shown should have been caught on the initial airworthiness inspection, if not the 6-7 subsequent inspections. I think 2 out of the 7 rivets are acceptable.

Just remember that there is a simple formual for determining a set rivet:

It should be approximately 1/2 the original diameter in height and approximately 1.5 original diameters in width. Diameters here are referring to the unset rivet measurements. As an example, a 1/8" rivet as seen here (AN470) should measure 3/16" across and 1/16" high after being set. After a while you will be able to eyeball it.

[acam37]

Looks like those could be hit again and they would be perfect

[KatanaPilot]

Originally Posted by acam37

Looks like those could be hit again and they would be perfect

I'm really new at aircraft sheet metal work, but if workmanship like this that is fairly accessible and visible has been considered acceptable - both for the initial airworthiness sign-off and subsequent condition inspections - what about all of the inaccessible (and long hidden) fasteners in the wings and other critical areas?

All I can surmise from seeing these and other examples of marginal construction is that Van and his engineers did a heck of job designing to the lowest common denominator. Otherwise, these airplanes would be falling out of the sky.

For me, it confirms the advantage of having several sets of trained and experienced eyes (in my case at Synergy) look at each and every component I build.

[RV7ForMe]

Geez! I mean those do not look good to anyone. Not even to an amateur like me. How the heck do these birds get signed off? Kudos to Vans for over-engineering the heck out of these planes. Thanks for posting these...

[rv8ch]

Originally Posted by vic syracuse

... I think 2 out of the 7 rivets are acceptable.

Vic, I agree completely that these photos are very helpful.

One point - I assume you mean 2 of the 9 rivets there are ok? Can I guess you mean the one on the far left and the one at the lowest point on the photo? They seem to be slightly overdriven IMHO, but I agree that they look "ok", from the angle I can make out in the photo. Perhaps the bottom right corner rivet might be "ok", if slightly underdriven. If a picture is worth a 1000 words, seeing it in 3d with two live eyes is worth 1000 pictures.

[vic syracuse]

Yes, my bad. I guess I can't count.
The two you mentioned are set properly. The others could be fixed in about 2 minutes with a gun and bucking bar. They are easily accessible.

There have been a few comments about the Vans aircraft being over engineered. No doubt. I remember taking my first piece on the rv-4 to the FAA when we had to to get preclosure signoffs. He asked if I was building a tank. I didn't know any better until I looked at the inside of a Cessna tail. Yikes! I didn't understand how it stayed on, but I certainly understood why they were cracking from everyone pushing down on the tails to move them around!

That being said (that they are overengineered) they should still be built right. Anything worth doing is worth doing right. These pictures I am showing you are not becasue I am picky. Quite candidly, none of these would have been given an airworthiness certificate if I was the DAR. A lot of them are fixable---some even during the course of the inspection like the RV-7 vertical fin. Others, like the RV-10, are going to take a major rebuild.

As someone also mentioned, it makes you wonder about the rest of the aircraft. I am working on posting some pictures in a bit that will drive that point home with a big hammer.

Vic

[vic syracuse]

So, in the spirit of what else might be lurking behind visible poor workmanship, take a look at the following:

Missing rivets on the horizontal stabilizer. Should have been caught on airworthiness inspection.



Pop rivets on the engine mount attachments. Really?



How's this for wallowed out holes on the landing gear attachment?



This is the horizontal stabilizer attachment, the first clue that one might want to look deeper.



Real friends don't let their friends buy RV's without a thorugh prebuy.

Vic

[RV74ME]

On the subject of acceptable rivets, I'm wondering is it ok if you have a properly formed shop head that is "overdriven" (won't fit in the rivet gauge), but still meets the minimum head height? Hope that makes sense.